Sales of the GM Volt.

[rwh11385]

You're wrong. Your arrogant arguments falsely inferring opinions and level of intelligence fail to have a point. When all you do is google shit and then post someone else's experience as your own. The prime reason I quoted a seven year old article about Sonex was to see how you react. Exactly like I thought you would - without 0 prior knowledge/experience, you google it up and then represent what you read as if you had worked there for 20 years and you pretend to be very knowledgeable on the subject.

Keep posting monthly sales figures, it obviously makes you feel you're doing something special for the most retarded car in the world.

Wait, weren't you the one inferring everything about electric cars based on your BROTHER's experience with UPS's??? I forget. And you must have missed when I mentioned I ran an international EV motorsports competition and also participated on one of the teams the following year, so clearly you know better than I if I've worked on EVs before or not... or wait.

And how is 2007 seven years ago? Are you in the future? Is that why extended range EVs are commonplace to you?

I'm sorry that just because you want to be simple about everything and assume that no one in the world understands the most basic engineering principles because they are beyond you that anyone who does must be arrogant. If you ever care to learn anything before making inferences about electric cars from laptops, maybe you'd understand you sound like a retard assuming engineers just aren't trying hard enough and being lazy vs. physics.

[Fusion]

No, I stated that UPS's (in this case on a small trailer due to battery size) are one example of BMS use. If you think I base "everything on electric cars" on a UPS, than you're twisting sentances to your liking and being the ignorant one.
You still haven't explained why you think the Volt's BMS is "advanced".

[herbivor]

Our reliable X3 just became very unreliable. We're test driving the Volt on Monday as a candidate replacement. Also exploring the Tesla S as an option if we can get it sooner rather than later. I really wanted to hold out for the i3 but it won't be here in time for our needs. I normally wouldn't even consider EV's but after driving a Leaf, I found it to be such an enjoyable experience, that they are top considerations as of now.

[mrsleeve]

^

Not surprised in the least

[rwh11385]

^

Not surprised in the least

They seemed 'fine' at the dealer but always got an E46 easily broken feel to them. And I heard a lot from Charlie who is a huge non-fan of their quality because of his folks' X3. Still curious on the new one's, look a lot better at least.

Our reliable X3 just became very unreliable. We're test driving the Volt on Monday as a candidate replacement. Also exploring the Tesla S as an option if we can get it sooner rather than later. I really wanted to hold out for the i3 but it won't be here in time for our needs. I normally wouldn't even consider EV's but after driving a Leaf, I found it to be such an enjoyable experience, that they are top considerations as of now.

I really enjoyed my test drive.

[mrsleeve]

I meant that herbi has driven a leaf and liked it and is now considering EV's and the volt. I am betting they are going to have a similar "seemed fine at the dealer thing about them"

[rwh11385]

No, I stated that UPS's (in this case on a small trailer due to battery size) are one example of BMS use. If you think I base "everything on electric cars" on a UPS, than you're twisting sentances to your liking and being the ignorant one.
You still haven't explained why you think the Volt's BMS is "advanced".

So what you are trying to say is that because I played a video game and played with Basic code once, then I must understand everything that it takes to make COD myself? Video games are nothing new, and I've seen something related to it... so therefore no new games are more advanced than duck hunt?

Actually, I have explained why it is advanced beyond what existed before. A commercial extended range EV has never been done before and is more complex than simply running off a battery. In order to manage heat, battery life, performance, efficiency, and stuff like the user interface and control logic for when the generator comes on, and how to be sure it last 8 years under warranty requires novel technologies and programming, and something no one else has engineered for the mass market before. If it wasn't new, no one would be saying it was unproven technology. Saying the battery management and controls on the Volt are simple because laptops have been around for decades is moronic.

But so is declaring that hybrids and EVs are a dead end, based on pure ignorance of engines and inefficiencies and an assumption that through some troll physics you should totally be able to increase efficiency (beyond theoretical limits of thermodynamics even). That's arrogant as hell, to think that you as uneducated on the subject as you are could be certain that those who have been studying it and researching it must be not trying hard enough.

If anything, the article you mentioned had technology that was a dead end... because that's where it has sat for years now... on the chopping block. And your assumption was double what their optimistically high improvements were at! BASED ON WHAT? Hopes and dreams??? No, just you talking out of your ass, per usual. Troll physics exist because people like you without a clue assume stuff is possible because they simply aren't aware of basic fundamentals.

Hybrids make sense for efficiency because they turn energy that would otherwise be wasted into energy that can propel the car and reduce the need for fuel to do so. Instead of generating heat from friction of brake pads, re-gen brakes transform this kinetic energy into electricity to drive the wheels. Similar to how turbochargers transform heat that would have been wasted to help increase air mass entering an engine that would have to been larger to achieve the same power if it ran at atmospheric. As we progress, more things will be run off electricity as to not be putting mechanical drag on the engine (electric water pumps), like BMW's smaller alternator LOADS and re-gen brakING to charge the battery. And obviously aero improvements and lighter density materials help too, but transforming waste energy into locomotion is going to be more efficient than hoping and dreaming for a magic combustion cycle. Ignoring the reasons of why hybrids are used to be more efficient and calling them dead-end is arrogant, especially if you have nothing better to say than ... "there's gotta be a way to make cycles more efficient than their theoretical ones governed by the laws of thermodynamics"...

There's a good reason why almost every major automaker is developing an extended range EV... but maybe you think you know better then them??

[rwh11385]

I meant that herbi has driven a leaf and liked it and is now considering EV's and the volt. I am betting they are going to have a similar "seemed fine at the dealer thing about them"

I'm pretty sure that was established like 20 pages ago, so I assumed you were talking about the X3.


They ought to have been thoroughly tested and abused at Milford, so I think they'll do better than you expect. And you also have a prejudice against everything not a truck. Although you should know you can indeed install a gun rack in one, regardless of what Newt says.

[u3b3rg33k]

As we progress, more things will be run off electricity as to not be putting mechanical drag on the engine, like BMW's smaller alternator and re-gen brakes to charge the battery. And obviously aero improvements and lighter density materials help too, but transforming waste energy into locomotion is going to be more efficient than hoping and dreaming for a magic combustion cycle. Ignoring the reasons of why hybrids are used to be more efficient and calling them dead-end is arrogant, especially if you have nothing better to say than ... "there's gotta be a way to make cycles more efficient than their theoretical ones governed by the laws of thermodynamics"...

If anything you mean bigger? Regenerative braking is not done by the brakes - it's done by the alternator / prime mover motor.

Today's vehicles require much more electrical energy than older models, due to the much wider array of electric and electronic on-board comfort and safety systems. This energy is created by the generator (also known as the alternator) which converts the engine's power output into electricity. In conventional systems, the generator is permanently driven by a belt connected to the engine.
BMW's Brake Energy Regeneration operates differently: the generator is activated only when you take your foot from the accelerator or apply the brake. The kinetic energy that would otherwise go to waste is now used efficiently, converted into electricity by the generator and stored in the battery.

http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/efficientdynamics/phase_1/measures_brake_energy_regeneration.html

[rwh11385]

If anything you mean bigger? Regenerative braking is not done by the brakes - it's done by the alternator / prime mover motor.


http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/t...eneration.html

Semantics issues from being annoyed, thanks for improving my post's clarity and accuracy. There is a smaller (or no) alternator mechanical drag during acceleration for better fuel economy and re-cooping otherwise wasted energy during deceleration. Electric water pump, electric power steering, electric A/C also decrease mechanical drag by using electricity instead. The major trend of the line obviously also becoming turbocharged.

[mrsleeve]

I'm pretty sure that was established like 20 pages ago, so I assumed you were talking about the X3.


They ought to have been thoroughly tested and abused at Milford, so I think they'll do better than you expect. And you also have a prejudice against everything not a truck. Although you should know you can indeed install a gun rack in one, regardless of what Newt says.

HAHAHAH


Nahh I still like my light weight balanced or high powered good handling cars. I will have one again some time. Its just that they are not very conducive to my life style, or where I live most of the year. Nor is a EV suitable for what I do in my off time and where I live either. Thats all

[rwh11385]

HAHAHAH


Nahh I still like my light weight balanced or high powered good handling cars. I will have one again some time. Its just that they are not very conducive to my life style, or where I live most of the year. Nor is a EV suitable for what I do in my off time and where I live either. Thats all

Yeah, there's a reason they are marketed to people in cities and on the grid, rather than off it and more likely to see wild game than an outlet on their drive.

But then again, GM also made the bi-fuel pick-ups with 650 mi combined range for Texas, Montana, and everywhere in between - so not like expecting everyone to find it as a good fit.

[mrsleeve]

let me know when I can slap my 15k lb horse trailer on the back of the 1/2 ton dual fuel and tote it 50+ miles into the back country up several thousand feet of elevation change (some of which is changes really fast) on rutted, muddy, no so well maintained Forest service roads.

Then we can talk about how well these things will work for me. Will the work for some YEAH of course they will, never have denied that.

[Fusion]

Actually, I have explained why it is advanced beyond what existed before. A commercial extended range EV has never been done before and is more complex than simply running off a battery. In order to manage heat, battery life, performance, efficiency, and stuff like the user interface and control logic for when the generator comes on, and how to be sure it last 8 years under warranty requires novel technologies and programming, and something no one else has engineered for the mass market before. If it wasn't new, no one would be saying it was unproven technology. Saying the battery management and controls on the Volt are simple because laptops have been around for decades is moronic.

I'm glad you explained that there is absolutely no technological advancement in that car, whatsoever. Complex? Sophisticated BMS? Sure. Not advanced and certainly not a leap forward as GM claimed.

But so is declaring that hybrids and EVs are a dead end, based on pure ignorance of engines and inefficiencies and an assumption that through some troll physics you should totally be able to increase efficiency (beyond theoretical limits of thermodynamics even). That's arrogant as hell, to think that you as uneducated on the subject as you are could be certain that those who have been studying it and researching it must be not trying hard enough.

It has been proven over and over again.

Ignoring the reasons of why hybrids are used to be more efficient and calling them dead-end is arrogant, especially if you have nothing better to say than ... "there's gotta be a way to make cycles more efficient than their theoretical ones governed by the laws of thermodynamics"...

So gasoline engine fuel efficiency hasn't improved in the last 50 years?

[rwh11385]

I'm glad you explained that there is absolutely no technological advancement in that car, whatsoever. Complex? Sophisticated BMS? Sure. Not advanced and certainly not a leap forward as GM claimed.

Whatever lets you sleep easy at night in your weird interpretation of reality.

It has been proven over and over again.

When? Where? In your messed up head?

So gasoline engine fuel efficiency hasn't improved in the last 50 years?

Never did I say that, you ignorant clown. We've gotten vastly more complex and sophisticated in our fuel management and timing (but that's not innovation or technology right??), optimizing the combustion process. But you have complete and utter disregard that there are limits of the Otto Cycle, even given ideal conditions. There's only so much you can do to make our current engines more efficient while spewing out a bunch of heat that isn't doing work (and obviously exists because of burning of the fuel you put in, or turning our kinetic energy into heat via friction instead of stored potential energy to reduce future fuel needs). Turning more of that waste into locomotion = needing less fuel to do the same work. (Hence programs to have hot exhausts pipes create electricity as well, etc.) Or, designing different engine systems that don't waste as much energy.

If you actually want to see a new engine for DAPRA that didn't die off like the one you mentioned, someone has posted this one on here before... and it is actually invested in: http://www.engineeringtv.com/video/O...posed-Cylinder Originally designed for the A160 helicopter, but being also tested for a tanks and heavy trucks. http://www.autoevolution.com/news/na...ine-31729.html

After in the middle of last year Bill Gates found the technology to be worth $23.5 million of his and Khosla Ventures' money, the idea now drew the attention of one of the biggest players on the market.

Navistar announced today that it had decided to back EcoMotors in its efforts to manufacture the opposed piston-opposed cylinder engine, with the first real world application of the idea being a turbo-diesel.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303448404577407983173717616.html

EcoMotors International, based in the Detroit suburb of Allen Park, Mich., says its "opposed piston, opposed cylinder" engine design offers 15% better fuel economy in a package that's half the size and weight of a comparable conventional engine and should require 30% less capital investment to manufacture.

Similarly, pinnacle engines has a preliminary design that estimates 30% fuel savings from conventional engines.

I'm not an engineer, but I can't believe that there's no way to reduce fuel consumption in current engines to 50%. If I had all the money that was spent on hybrid dead-ends, I'm pretty sure I'd come up with something.

Maybe if you were an engineer, you'd understand. But you're someone who assumes that there aren't fundamental concepts that explain reality, like a child not knowing what why his toy car slows down eventually. I'd love to see a non-engineer in Poland re-invent the automobile with his amazing troll physics.


It's got one horsepower.