Sales of the GM Volt.

[rwh11385]

An electro with a generator is nothing new http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elect'road



You kidding? I have a 94 Mercedes with OBDII, a wifi ODB port and an iphone app that has tons of real-time data (not all possible data due to the car's age). E30's had built-in BC's for milage, consumption etc. decades ago.

And while we're arguing here, that friend of mine that has a 10yo BEV is installing a new motor because the original one suddenly died (reasons unknown yet).

So does this mean you completely ignored all the points about mechanical / gas components having more ways to fail, and that they corrode and become outdated over time?

And generator has been done before, but it was a parallel hybrid not series... But you fail to see how that is technically different, so lost cause.

Is that OEM wifi OBD port? Or an upgrade? People have done a lot of things (including an afterburning engine on a VW Beetle) but if an OEM did it, then it'd be a different story. And E30's OBC is a little lower tech... unless you are retarded. Does the iPhone app have the manufacturer provide diagnostic information to you? The customer/service integration is a value proposition few (or no?) others can provide.

Wow, BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ANYONE WITH AN ENGINE FAILING AT 10 YEARS...

[Fusion]

While most cars usually have over 200K km after 10 years, the BEV had about 30K (I can get you the exact number).

I have no reason to reply to your list because your comparison lacks logic. To damage most of the parts on your list, the car has to have been driven for hundreds of thousands of miles, poorly maintained (hole in block - actually happened to me) or poorly upgraded (hole in piston). Still, problems do occur, more often on newer cars due to their electrical systems (cough), but usually after reaching a relatively high milage, depending on manf. of course.

The OBD-II is OEM. The wifi port is of course aftermarket, but hardly any driver needs to know the AFR in real time or have speed/tach shown on a digital device.
But that's elementary. Look at what the last gen GT-R offers.

[rwh11385]

While most cars usually have over 200K km after 10 years, the BEV had about 30K (I can get you the exact number).

I have no reason to reply to your list because your comparison lacks logic. To damage most of the parts on your list, the car has to have been driven for hundreds of thousands of miles, poorly maintained (hole in block - actually happened to me) or poorly upgraded (hole in piston). Still, problems do occur, more often on newer cars due to their electrical systems (cough), but usually after reaching a relatively high milage, depending on manf. of course.

The OBD-II is OEM. The wifi port is of course aftermarket, but hardly any driver needs to know the AFR in real time or have speed/tach shown on a digital device.
But that's elementary. Look at what the last gen GT-R offers.

So you're saying that a single case, in which you don't even know the cause of the problem, is the basis of your entire argument about EVs?

What? You think it takes hundreds of thousands of miles for an exhaust to corrode? For a timing belt to snap? For a headgasket to blow?

Sounds like you are again close-minded and one-sided.


So what you are saying if that you are comparing an aftermarket upgrade to an OEM option and using that to declare the stock tech which does more as not more technological than previous OEM items...

[Fusion]

My Merc (which I bought from my father, who bought it new in 94) has 175K miles, never replaced the exhaust (has surface rust but no corrosion through the material), has a timing chain, never replaced and does not rattle, never blown a headhasket, original fuel pump, never had any service other than what the user manual states (not that I abide by it).

GPS/GSM tracking, diagnostics etc. offered by OnStar have been available for example to European freight trucks for atleast ten years.

[Wiglaf]

An electro with a generator is nothing new http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elect'road

neat, i didn't know about those! :)

and if you want to bring up that latest GTR.. It's getting such rave reviews because of it's ability to control power to each wheel. Imagine how much simpler that would be with 1 electric motor on each wheel instead of an insanely complicated transmission (which is arguably that car's weakest link).
You don't have to imagine, I'll tell you: awesome. 100% control of each wheel. You wouldn't even need power steering. And it would be FAST, faster than your ABS pulses. The traction control would be individual wheel power based, not braking or throttling. I get a nerd boner just thinking about how driving such a vehicle would feel.

[rwh11385]

My Merc (which I bought from my father, who bought it new in 94) has 175K miles, never replaced the exhaust (has surface rust but no corrosion through the material), has a timing chain, never replaced and does not rattle, never blown a headhasket, original fuel pump, never had any service other than what the user manual states (not that I abide by it).

GPS/GSM tracking, diagnostics etc. offered by OnStar have been available for example to European freight trucks for atleast ten years.

I guess we should only produce 1994 Mercedes then, because they sound good. Although I've heard legends of 1980s Volvos going strong at double that mileage! Why the heck are manufacturers making anything besides 1994 Mercedes - so dumb and a waste of money to spend on R&D, pinnacle of innovation and quality...

[Fusion]

Should I have expected anything more than a daft sarcastic response from someone who thinks GSM/GPS remote comm. is something technologically advanced in 2012?

[rwh11385]

Should I have expected anything more than a daft sarcastic response from someone who thinks GSM/GPS remote comm. is something technologically advanced in 2012?

I'm pretty sure I said the integration for the customer was the good stuff. It's not like freight trucks had their battery capacities available on a smart phone app, or remote charging available. Some cars had remote unlock (intentional or not using a proximity remove and call the person), but to have it all bundled together and seamlessly have two drivetrains in a consumer vehicle is cool, and not all packaged together like that.

But it doesn't really matter my opinion or reviewers opinion about how high tech or cool it is right? You've long ago made up your mind to hate it and argue against it, whether you have a reason to or not.

[Fusion]

I'm pretty sure I said the integration for the customer was the good stuff.

(On-Star allows real-time tracking, plus their phone app allows for overview of your own car... but that's not advanced tech at all, every car has that right?)

That same weird flow of thought lead you to say the Volt itself is advanced tech.

It's not like freight trucks had their battery capacities available on a smart phone app, or remote charging available.

There's virtually no reason to have bat. cap. remotely available, but I have no doubt that it would easily be possible with the capabilites Actros trucks have (and have had). Communication, mpg, and tracking obviously is the most important.
And I wrote for example because this technology is old and you can find various applications. Except 10 years ago there was no app. Not because it lacked capabilities, but because there was no iPhone.
A car that has an iDevice input/charger isn't advanced either.

But it doesn't really matter my opinion or reviewers opinion about how high tech or cool it is right? You've long ago made up your mind to hate it and argue against it, whether you have a reason to or not.

I don't hate it, and I argue against failed aspects. I started posting in this thread not politically, but because I would consider owning a xxEV. Since then I have been telling you my reasons why I wouldn't buy it. I have no intention to change anyone's mind, but every intention to state my opinion.
And that is that at this point, the Volt is an overpriced, uneconomical, overrated, falsely advertised box of wires. It has interesting features, but none of them outweigh the negatives. The government involvement is a cherry on top, but that would have low priority in my decision to buy.
And no, I don't find any modern american made family sedan cool or high tech.

[rwh11385]

That same weird flow of thought lead you to say the Volt itself is advanced tech.

There's virtually no reason to have bat. cap. remotely available, but I have no doubt that it would easily be possible with the capabilites Actros trucks have (and have had). Communication, mpg, and tracking obviously is the most important.
And I wrote for example because this technology is old and you can find various applications. Except 10 years ago there was no app. Not because it lacked capabilities, but because there was no iPhone.
A car that has an iDevice input/charger isn't advanced either.

Well, in the Volt's (or any EV's) case, checking the charge of the battery remotely and being able to control the charging of the vehicle remotely, you can fill up during off-peak hours. That seems like a good reason for EVs. Historical and trending information with tracking may be one thing, but live and actionable is another. Did the trucks have remote viewing of fuel level? That'd be similar in purpose. (You could plan a trip according to if you need to fuel or not... although no scheduling remotely of fueling)

http://carsofchange.com/electronics/cars-by-remote-control/

Chevrolet and OnStar introduced the auto industry’s first working smartphone app for an electric vehicle in early 2010.

I don't hate it, and I argue against failed aspects. I started posting in this thread not politically, but because I would consider owning a xxEV. Since then I have been telling you my reasons why I wouldn't buy it. I have no intention to change anyone's mind, but every intention to state my opinion.
And that is that at this point, the Volt is an overpriced, uneconomical, overrated, falsely advertised box of wires. It has interesting features, but none of them outweigh the negatives. The government involvement is a cherry on top, but that would have low priority in my decision to buy.
And no, I don't find any modern american made family sedan cool or high tech.

You started posting in this thread claiming that there's no reason that you see why automakers can't make current engines 50% efficient. Based on that thinking, you believed spending on any other technologies was stupid. That's a pretty ignorant way to go about things. So is ignoring limitations of mechanical systems or complications with them, and the fact that gasoline engines still require a lot of electronic components that you want to shy away from. If you really didn't trust electronics, you'd get something carbureted since FI shouldn't be trusted...

If you don't want one, don't buy one. Keep driving your 1994 Mercedes since it hasn't mechanically failed yet. But don't attack a category of vehicles just because you don't understand them. (Them fandangled electronic cars are no good!)

The problem with stating opinions is when you present close-minded opinion as fact without understanding of things you are judging. You can think anything you want, but doesn't mean people aren't going to present facts to the contrary.

[Fusion]

You say that as if the Volt can't fail mechanically.

[rwh11385]

You say that as if the Volt can't fail mechanically.

Where exactly did I say that? Your arguing is grasping at straws.

But the reality is the ICE won't get much use nor does it have to operate a large range or have high revs, it lives an easy life. It doesn't have to run at stressful operating points because it is a generator / APU. (It runs between 1200 and 4000 rpm, and at 30-100% load)

MotorTrend changed their oil at 26,861 miles. It's not used the majority of the miles.

[Vedubin01]

The Chevy Volt is making news again...

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/08/gm-suspends-chevy-volt-production-over-slow-sales/1#.UDv_QT6P1aQ

[rwh11385]

The Chevy Volt is making news again...


http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.UDv_QT6P1aQ

Funny how some information is lost about context when going to a news article about another news article:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120827/AUTO0103/208270428/1121/GM-to-pause-production-at-Detroit-Hamtramck-plant-for-a-month

General Motors Co. will halt production at its Detroit Hamtramck Assembly plant, where it builds the extended range Chevrolet Volt, for four weeks for retooling starting in mid September, sources said Monday.

The assembly line shutdown will begin Sept. 17 and continue through Oct. 15, as GM readies for production of the all-new 2014 Chevrolet Impala, the brand's flagship full-size sedan.

About 1,500 workers will be idled during retooling because the automaker builds multiple models on the same assembly line.

When August sales figures are released next week, the Volt is expected to report its best-ever sales month, more than 2,200 cars.

GM plans to add a second shift at the plant when production begins.

But hey, believe whichever source makes you feel better, rationale behind the headlines or not.

[joshh]

Funny how some information is lost about context when going to a news article about another news article:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120827/AUTO0103/208270428/1121/GM-to-pause-production-at-Detroit-Hamtramck-plant-for-a-month

But hey, believe whichever source makes you feel better, rationale behind the headlines or not.

OH MY 2200 fucking cars. That's unheard of in the car sales arena man. Right there with all the other failure of cars that were discontinued.
Point is, if the car where selling well (it's not) it would have its own production line or wouldn't need to be shut down. So you just keep going with those justifications for why the Volt is selling like shit still.

How's that Cruze selling now days?

GM is headed to the gutter again if they don't start cutting costs....and they always cut cost on the cars. Back to the old GM as we knew them. The UAW will not lose a dime...