Sales of the GM Volt.

[rwh11385]

OH MY 2200 fucking cars. That's unheard of in the car sales arena man. Right there with all the other failure of cars that were discontinued.
Point is, if the car where selling well (it's not) it would have its own production line or wouldn't need to be shut down. So you just keep going with those justifications for why the Volt is selling like shit still.

How's that Cruze selling now days?

GM is headed to the gutter again if they don't start cutting costs....and they always cut cost on the cars. Back to the old GM as we knew them. The UAW will not lose a dime...

So is the BMW X series unsuccessful? Toyota Camry? Subaru Legacy? (and the lions share of other cars too) All of these are built on flexible production lines. Because it's the modern approach that leads to quick response to market needs and saves money. The old system of one plant for one car was inefficient and GM adopting industry best practices instead of running old school is a good thing. . . Unless you are as completely ignorant as you usually are.

[joshh]

So is the BMW X series unsuccessful? Toyota Camry? Subaru Legacy? (and the lions share of other cars too) All of these are built on flexible production lines. Because it's the modern approach that leads to quick response to market needs and saves money. The old system of one plant for one car was inefficient and GM adopting industry best practices instead of running old school is a good thing. . . Unless you are as completely ignorant as you usually are.

Volt sales numbers suck...keep dancing around that fact.

[e30sd]

Heeter why do you bother? You're like a young teacher working on hopeless inner-city youth. Fuck it; they've made their choice to be goners. Move on.

[rwh11385]

Volt sales numbers suck...keep dancing around that fact.

Why brush off so quickly the fact that you are absolutely clueless when it comes to the auto industry and should just be quiet already? You think that flexible manufacturing systems are a sign of weakness - that, and everything else in this thread demonstrate that you exclusively operate on ignorance and what conservative simplistic writers tell you to think.

I find it hilarious that so much of this thread focused on how the Leaf was cheaper and it would kill the Volt, yet it has gotten absolutely slaughtered in sales. People like extended range over pure EVs right now (although technology and culture shift may change that over time).


In the meantime, one doesn't have to wait for the Fusion Energi, the C-Max is now available and is the cheapest plug-in hybrid. Competition is competition, but the more PHEVs out there, the more it legitimizes the segment and that GM was the trend setter. http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...0102/207240401

Ford Motor Co. has officially announced the base price for the new C-MAX Energi plug-in hybrid — $29,995, after the federal tax credit — making it the most affordable plug-in hybrid in America.

The C-MAX Energi plug-in hybrid is eligible for a $3,750 federal tax credit; the original base price is $33,745.

The Energi base price is slightly higher than that of the 2012 Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid, which costs $32,760 and qualifies for a $2,500 federal tax credit.

The 2013 Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid has a retail price of $39,995 and qualifies for a $7,500 federal tax credit.

C-Max PHEV: $29,995
Prius PHEV: $30,260
Volt PHEV: $32,495
(after rebates)

8% more for nearly double the EV-only range is pretty reasonable.

Ford's first plug-in hybrid has a fuel economy equivalent 95 mpg, Ford said, the same as the Prius, but the Energi plug-in hybrid will have a 20-mile driving range in electric-only mode, about double that of the Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid, which gets an Environmental Protection Agency certified 11-mile driving range.

The Energi's total range is about 550 miles; that figure is about 540 for the Prius.

The Volt has an EV range of 38 miles and the MPGe will be 98 miles. The total range will be 380 miles when the latest version of the vehicle becomes available in August.

[rwh11385]

How's that Cruze selling now days?

How is it selling these days?

Oh, what? August was a record setting month? 25,975 Cruzes, plus 8703 Sonics, and 2630 Sparks. Record month for the Cruze even with more cheaper small cars internally competing. Overall, GM saw a 10% YOY increase in sales.


And the final number of Volts sold was 2831 in August. More than 9 times August 2011. And that monthly sales figure is greater than the Escalade, Regal, or Avalanche, and more than double the Corvette.

Word is that Volt will have its redesign for 2015 model. Since it has the most battery capacity of the PHEVs, it's most sensitive to battey price changes, so look forward to seeing what GenII will bring.

[gwb72tii]

anybody even question why hybrids are necessary at all.

http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/bmw-diesel-beats-prius-in-economy-run-20080317/

[rwh11385]

anybody even question why hybrids are necessary at all.
http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/...-run-20080317/

Because intelligent people realize that stop/go driving of the city creates wasted energy and recuperating that into locomotive energy creates greater efficiency.

Only an idiot would focus on a hybrid's highway performance - since it is generally traveling at a more or less constant speed and vehicles avoid the conventional loss of efficiency of braking and re-accelerating that hybrids were created to improve upon. Hence why a lot of the effort for highway vehicles has been on aerodynamics to improve efficiency, not hybridization.

[gwb72tii]

Because intelligent people realize that stop/go driving of the city creates wasted energy and recuperating that into locomotive energy creates greater efficiency.

Only an idiot would focus on a hybrid's highway performance - since it is generally traveling at a more or less constant speed and vehicles avoid the conventional loss of efficiency of braking and re-accelerating that hybrids were created to improve upon. Hence why a lot of the effort for highway vehicles has been on aerodynamics to improve efficiency, not hybridization.

care to read the study before you look any more ignorant?

[rwh11385]

care to read the study before you look any more ignorant?

I read it before responding, doesn't change the fact that you're still an idiot. Even your link pointed out the advantage of hybrids. (Did YOU even read it?)

As many people know, the advantage of hybrids lies in urban driving where the stop-and-go recaptures the car’s energy. On the highway, it’s one more four-cylinder car pushing throught the wind.

The main portion of the story was comparing the 520d with the Prius on a 545 mile highway run.

A mid-size BMW sedan equipped with a diesel engine returned better fuel economy on a 545-mile, London-to-Geneva, run than a gasoline-powered Toyota Prius. A BMW 520d with a 2.0-liter diesel engine and regenerative braking (but no heavy duty hybrid features) got 41.9 mpg while the full-hybrid Prius, 500 pounds lighter, got 40.1 mpg.

As long as people live in cities (which is the majority now), hybrids will be of value and their recapturing of otherwise wasted energy will be necessary to reach the fuel efficiency goals of the future. (or that people want now)

Linking to that and asking if hybrids are even necessary underlines the fact that you are clueless as to their actual value and completely misguided in your criticism.

[Fusion]

If stop-go traffic is the problem, you may want to consider public transport instead of a $40K way to haul your ass to the nearest starbucks.

[rwh11385]

If stop-go traffic is the problem, you may want to consider public transport instead of a $40K way to haul your ass to the nearest starbucks.

Yeah, here in America the slim minority of cities and towns have truly useful public transportation. Although it is funny as you desperately try to present different "logic" to attack. If people had access to good public transportation, especially Generation Y, they could forgo a car altogether anyway instead of arguing about which car is most practical. Since car sharing is on the rise, fewer American youngsters are even buying cars. But are you really arguing that no one in a city should own a car just to attempt to attack the Volt? Pathetic. And out of touch with the amount of urban sprawl in America that makes public transportation difficult to implement while making much of the drive stop/go.


Plus, the Volt can give you ~infinity miles per gallon of gas to and from a place up to 19 miles from your home... by whatever kinds of roads you take, city or highway. (Technically it's 95 MPGe for City and 93 MPGe for Highway...)

You can get a hybrid for a LOT less than $40K. (2000 Insights can be found for $5K and get 49/61)

[Fusion]

I love how you shove whatever words pop up in your egoistic mind down others' throats.

You can get a hybrid for a LOT less than $40K. (2000 Insights can be found for $5K and get 49/61)

Nice of you to point out why not to buy an overpriced government funded car ;)

[rwh11385]

I love how you shove whatever words pop up in your egoistic mind down others' throats.



Nice of you to point out why not to buy an overpriced government funded car ;)

I love how another point is made moot and you simply respond to my style of doing so rather than defending yet another illogical attack.


I thought hybrids were pointless because everyone in cities should use public transportation? (Or they could bike, which is becoming ever more popular). Are hybrids only evil or stupid when new?

Buying any new car could be argued to be silly because used ones are cheaper. Why would anyone buy a new BMW since there are plenty that exist for cheaper used? By your point that all new cars are more expensive than used, should all carmarkers shut down production and R&D, and simply make parts for used ones? The attack on the Volt applies to all cars.


And... the Insight provided tax benefits as well... so is it "government-funded" as well?

Luxury SUVs that were purchased for business use could be written off for tax benefits, so we those "government-funded" as well?

[Fusion]

You make me laugh, baby dino. I'm not going to answer any of your silly questions, but let you contemplate what I wrote.
I'll come back when I need another giggle.

[rwh11385]

You make me laugh, baby dino. I'm not going to answer any of your silly questions, but let you contemplate what I wrote.
I'll come back when I need another giggle.

And taking a page out of gwb's playbook. . .
Ignoring valid questions about poor arguments / logic when he runs out of bullshit.