Remnant Church?

[Redfox]

If you can, you should. I wouldn't expect to find a perfect church, but there are some that will align with your beliefs / expectations.

No offense taken ;)

:)

I have been to many churches over the years, some were sorta "cultish" and others were more about showing off how big the church is and the amount of money they have. I've even attended an all black "soul church" and stood..for 5 and a half hours... Maybe I haven't found the right church. I probably should look around more and test the waters. It's a shame that such negative experiences with churches lead me to where I'm at now. I believe not every church is bad, but searching for the right one almost seems like a needle in a haystack.

[Bill 84 318i]

Listen, if you don't like it, move on. It's really fucking simple. Your stand point and soap box you continually get onto about "those people" is the EXACT same soap box used by the Religious types about how everyone that doesn't believe, feel, see, act, taste, smell, live the exact way they do then they are (wait for it...) ignorant, lost, stupid, dumb, going to hell, sinners, liars, cheats, thieves...

See what I'm getting at?

Clearly tjts1 likes being loud on this one (and others). But I'd like to at least bring your attention to a point, without the intention of defending the comments above.

Those of us who speak out against religion don't just think "it's stupid" (I hope). I went to church every week growing up, but wasn't really "raised religious", so to speak. When I turned 18, I stopped, and it's been interesting how it's progressed since - I went from not thinking about it, to actively thinking it's not for me, to actually being pretty pissed that I was lied to throughout my childhood; I know they're not lies to those who are religious, but perception is reality, and that's mine.

So I really just want to say that it's not all condescension and name calling - it's often deeper than that, and it's often personal on this side of the fence, too. Having your worldview turned around is not something that's easy to get over.

[CorvallisBMW]

I always liked that bumper sticker, "Dear Jesus, please save me from your followers"

[ACMF74]

The only problem with Religion?

The fanatic people.

[StereoInstaller1]

If churches were required to pay taxes, I would be OK with pretty much whatever, as long as I don't have to be part of it.

From kool-aid cannibals to special undies, whatever, missionary yourselves silly for all I care, but if you knock on my door I promise only to be nice. If you feel the call to come offer me your views, I expect you to listen to mine.

AS it is they aren't, and it pisses me off every day. When some so-called "church" scams its members out of millions, I only laugh. I know most do good stuff (or what our tiny little minds think of as good) and try their best to improve (again, their idea of "improve") the world, I don't care...they need to pay taxes.

[ck_taft325is]

Clearly tjts1 likes being loud on this one (and others). But I'd like to at least bring your attention to a point, without the intention of defending the comments above.

Those of us who speak out against religion don't just think "it's stupid" (I hope). I went to church every week growing up, but wasn't really "raised religious", so to speak. When I turned 18, I stopped, and it's been interesting how it's progressed since - I went from not thinking about it, to actively thinking it's not for me, to actually being pretty pissed that I was lied to throughout my childhood; I know they're not lies to those who are religious, but perception is reality, and that's mine.

So I really just want to say that it's not all condescension and name calling - it's often deeper than that, and it's often personal on this side of the fence, too. Having your worldview turned around is not something that's easy to get over.

I actually completely understand that. I am much the same. Again, I blamed God instead of the shitty people. I was raised in a ridiculously stunted Church. Again, I blamed "God" for "his people" instead of blaming the shit people that Christ, in the "book of fables" himself spoke out against. HUGELY. People like to give Christ a bad rap but before they start throwing insults they should really read what he had to say. It's rather funny how much their views and Christ's would line up in regards to "the Church".

In reality, I don't know if there's a God or not beyond what I have personally experienced throughout my life. I do not know what happens after death, as no one really does. BUT, I don't see why anyone's views are so "threatening" to anyone else. Again, take Atheism for instance. I don't find Atheists particularly threatening to my views. I'm friends with a few at work and they know I believe in God. We're all peoples. Do I believe God can make a difference in someone's life? Hell yes. Do I feel the need to shove it down your throat? Nope.

This same philosophy should be taken by many a Atheist. Especially on these boards. The fact is, if you don't believe, who gives a rats ass if other's do? Unless, you feel the need to show e-thug dominance about it and flaunt your "superior" intelligence about how much you "know" God doesn't exist. I know, I know... I can't unequivocally prove God exists because anyone's own personal experiences are instantly disqualified as they are not empirical evidence or 100% "logical" AND, "someone cannot prove something does not exist" "tenant" of logic (which I find rather obtuse).

Either way, tjts can suck a dick. Yeah, I'm a believer in God and yeah, I feel like men should be talked to like men. And thus, eat a dick tjts. Or, grow up, drop a sack and learn to talk with some mild respect. Much like I'm sure you would in real life.

[ck_taft325is]

:)

I have been to many churches over the years, some were sorta "cultish" and others were more about showing off how big the church is and the amount of money they have. I've even attended an all black "soul church" and stood..for 5 and a half hours... Maybe I haven't found the right church. I probably should look around more and test the waters. It's a shame that such negative experiences with churches lead me to where I'm at now. I believe not every church is bad, but searching for the right one almost seems like a needle in a haystack.

I'd say check out Marshillchurch.org. Again, people can suck but the sermons are pretty dead on.

[z31maniac]

BUT, I don't see why anyone's views are so "threatening" to anyone else. Again, take Atheism for instance. I don't find Atheists particularly threatening to my views.

I'd venture the reason people think it's threatening is because a lot of conservative political groups center around core Christian principles.

Why can't I buy a car on Sunday in OK?
Why can't I go to a liqour store on Sunday, but can go to a bar, get hammered and drive home?

And any number of other legislative items that right-wingers are proposing. Like some of the new abortion bills that are being moved through different state houses as we speak.

So the radical right says, "My view is superior, you should submit your will to God's because it is the right way."
Versus the Atheist who says, "I don't give a damn what you do, just don't force me to do it."


I think that's why people get upset at the entanglement of religion/governance. At least thats what bothers me. But I'm of the "do whatever you like as long as it doesn't hurt others" camp.

[CorvallisBMW]

So the radical right says, "My view is superior, you should submit your will to God's because it is the right way."
Versus the Atheist who says, "I don't give a damn what you do, just don't force me to do it."

:applause: :)

[StereoInstaller1]

I live my life based on how many people quote me in their sigs on R3V.

I do alright IMO.

[mrsleeve]

I think that's why people get upset at the entanglement of religion/governance. At least thats what bothers me. But I'm of the "do whatever you like as long as it doesn't hurt others" camp.

well you have to remember that this country is founded on western Christian values, an in a large part with out the preachers of all denominations, long before/during/ and after the revolution we more than likely would not be what we are today.

You have to remember that the original intention of the founders was that govt and faith are not to be walled off from one another, but to work hand in hand to foster an environment where man can rule him self. Our govt is set up (originally) so that your church and state allow the people maximum freedoms do as they see fit with their lives but yet remain civil, good willed, and honest with their fellow citizens.

Your faith was to be you moral compass and guide you in the correct direction when inter acting with the rest of society. And the government was structured so that when there were disputes they were to be handled at a local level (see our court system) and slowly worked up to the ladder, in no agreement could be reached.

The states role was to keep you safe for invaders, and enforce the rule of law if anyone was to infringe on your freedoms and rights.

Things have been a bit perverted though haven't they

Lastly I do agree with you the no booze, no hunting, no fill in the blank. Stuff on Sunday is a perversion of what I have laid out above and just down right bordering on religious rule of law, rather than what the USA was founded and built upon. Now if you local township passes such things they I dont have issue as much, as that a local group of people instituting a law over them selves ( I still see is as infringement on my rights) but less imposing as something coming down from the sate house or DC

[Dozyproductions]

well you have to remember that this country is founded on western christian values, an in a large part with out the preachers of all denominations, long before/during/ and after the revolution we more than likely would not be what we are today.

You have to remember that the original intention of the founders was that govt and faith are not to be walled off from one another, but to work hand in hand to foster an environment where man can rule him self. Our govt is set up (originally) so that your church and state allow the people maximum freedoms do as they see fit with their lives but yet remain civil, good willed, and honest with their fellow citizens.

Most of this is your opinion, not fact.

[mrsleeve]

Most of this is your opinion, not fact.

Ummm

No all of this is indeed fact. You really should do some reading. Well beyond what they taught you in High school, you might just learn something other than the revisionist white guilt history we all have been getting though the public school system for the last 40 or so years.

Really srs

[Dozyproductions]

Ummm

No all of this is indeed fact. You really should do some reading. Well beyond what they taught you in High school, you might just learn something other than the revisionist white guilt history we all have been getting though the public school system for the last 40 or so years.

Really srs

Thanks, but Im quite done with highschool and whatever it is you assume me to be. Through my own readings I learned to phase out when I hear the wishful statement that 'we should go back to our christian roots'.

There is little to no evidence that any of more enlightened founding fathers practiced religion and our constitution never mentions anything to do with religion beyond its separation from state.

Thus my reason of saying that most of what you said is of your opinion.

[mrsleeve]

Thanks, but Im quite done with highschool and whatever it is you assume me to be. Through my own readings I learned to phase out when I hear the wishful statement that 'we should go back to our christian roots'.

There is little to no evidence that any of more enlightened founding fathers practiced religion and our constitution never mentions anything to do with religion beyond its separation from state.

Thus my reason of saying that most of what you said is of your opinion.

Ahhh I see

Well it NEVER MENTIONS THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE ANYWHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION. It does how ever state there will no establishment of a state endorsed religion, and that we all have the freedom to worship what ever we choose.

What you seem to be confusing for separation, is the former. All that means is you cannot be barred form voting, land or business ownership, or from serving in a public capacity. If you dont partake in Religion A, B, or C. Not that the church in general is to have nothing to do with the influence of legislation and the rule of law. (they very much go hand in hand). look at our core beliefs and general moral code Religious or not. Most of them stem for the 10 commandments. Again I fully agree that the pushing of religious based laws that impose the will of the majority on to the minority, is a perversion. Like Pro life/ pro choice, Alcohol sales on sunday, no hunting on sunday (state of PA) and other such Religious founded blanket legislation.

All that said I personally am in the same camp as Manic that I dont give 2 shits about your religious affiliation, just leave me alone and dont try to press me into it.