Shame on the US public, Champion sportswear

[Turf1600]

Turf, you have a very skewed view about a few things.

First of all, calling out Christians? What does that have to do with Bin Laden? I'm confused here to an extreme as to what Christians have to do with the death of Bin Laden. Was Seal team 6 comprised of only Christians? Or is "I assume that 10% of the country is Atheist that the other 90% is celebrating" mean that anyone non-Atheist is Christian?

On Forgiveness... what does Forgiveness have to do with Justice? What does Pacifism (that's the only word I can really come up with to define your Holier than Thou "morals" that you've said here in this thread...) accomplish in regards to a solution to Bin Laden? Or Al Queda in general? Or the Taliban? Or those bent on eradicating other's for the beliefs? Call them Terrorists or Extremists. Either or, what is your solution? Will it go something like, "IF we had not been so xyz we would never have encountered these issues in the first place..."

You seem to take lightly the freedoms you have and the cost of these freedoms. There will be those that singularly hate you because you are "Free". Al Queda are one of them. Bin Laden was one of them.

Back to Christianity and Bin Laden... wait, I'm still confused.

Celebration of death is not in line with christianity. Anyone who claims to be a christian and embraces vengeful death has broken their own rules. I'm likely bitter because I get judged so much by the religious when it's convenient for them but they don't take the time to analyze their own actions. Additnally, I understand the cost of freedom. However, we are not free as a result of the disrespect for human life or the hypocracy that we've collectively displayed as a country.

[Turf1600]

Proof? Or is this just something your atheist friends told you?

All over the front page of CNN yesterday...

[Turf1600]

Turf-man, from reading all of your posts in this thread, you seem very self-centered.

"We judge or fault, depending upon which of the two provides more opportunity for our powers of judgement to shine"

I understand how you can come to that conclusion based on this thread but ultimately I'm just as guilty as anyone who has replied - you just perceive it differently because you disagree with me. Regardless - noted. I posted this after a 15 hour shift at the ER on cinco de mayo - I was grouchy. I apologize for seeming judgemental.

Also, not so sure it is all revenge. Killing him DOES cripple Al-Quaeda (however you spell that), although yes, it won't stop the attacks.

Does not compute. Wouldn't the crippling of al qaeda slow or stop the attacks or plans? This seems to have fueled the fire...

[ck_taft325is]

Celebration of death is not in line with christianity. Anyone who claims to be a christian and embraces vengeful death has broken their own rules. I'm likely bitter because I get judged so much by the religious when it's convenient for them but they don't take the time to analyze their own actions. Additnally, I understand the cost of freedom. However, we are not free as a result of the disrespect for human life or the hypocracy that we've collectively displayed as a country.

Really now?

Man, I'm not going to turn this into a theological argument. But, you're wrong. And if you're strongly and pronouncedly Atheist, I don't take your word on this as the theologian superior on Christianity. Sorry. Being Atheist, I would do a bit more open minded delving into Christianity so you're not a run of the mill, "I'm pissed because I feel judged by every Christian I encounter". I'd also be interested in your experiences with most Christian's. I have no doubt that it was brutally retarded as most Christian's are just that. Goes to say that most people are, right? So, why are you being one of them by using blanket statements, irrational thought and biased judgement that all, or 90% of the Country is celebrating hypocritically?

It's not a disrespect of human life. See, you say there's been no rational, logically answer to your argument or "feelings" yet you've displayed that you yourself are not being either of those. Your starting point and perspective are highly skewed as you still confuse (or wrongly believe) Justice and Vengeance. Alternately you've yet to answer any of the multitude of questions. So, I'd say Buddy nailed it. It's a big "look at how enlightened I am" thread aimed at "shaming" everyone who disagree's with YOUR perspective.

Sorry, I've been borrowing your soap box for a bit now, I'll let you get back to feeling special.

[Turf1600]

Somebodies been listening to Michael Moore very recently. Michael Moore is deeply saddened with Osamas death. What we should have done was sent our MP's over there made visual confirmation that it was in fact bin laden, gained a search warrant, and read him his rights. I love Michael Moore so much. He really is the most down to earth guy I have ever seen.

I haven't heard a word the man has said since I had to do a report on fahrenheit 9/11 in 12th grade.

Also, I'm not sad that he's dead. I'm sad that people are happy about a situation that never has been and never will be positive.

Either you can't read, didn't read or just heard what you wanted to hear - because what you said has nothing to do with my argument.

[ck_taft325is]

"We judge or fault, depending upon which of the two provides more opportunity for our powers of judgement to shine"

I understand how you can come to that conclusion based on this thread but ultimately I'm just as guilty as anyone who has replied - you just perceive it differently because you disagree with me. Regardless - noted. I posted this after a 15 hour shift at the ER on cinco de mayo - I was grouchy. I apologize for seeming judgemental.



Does not compute. Wouldn't the crippling of al qaeda slow or stop the attacks or plans? This seems to have fueled the fire...

Not seeming. For Being.

[Turf1600]

hahahahahaha Yeah IIRC he is

Born and raised in Houston, TX.

[Turf1600]

Not seeming. For Being.

Who are you to decide? And correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you just pass judgement upon me? I have made no personal attacks apart from those who are commenting on ideas that I never expressed...

[Turf1600]

Turf - Im 100% behind you and I feel exactly the same.

I knew I could count on you.

[Turf1600]

How is his death a loss and not a victory? Osama Bin Laden was a threat to our country. If killing him means that further terrorist attacks can be avoided and American lives can be saved, then you can damn well bet that I will celebrate his "neutralization".

Not going to go over this again...I've made my point.

[ck_taft325is]

Who are you to decide? And correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you just pass judgement upon me? I have made no personal attacks apart from those who are commenting on ideas that I never expressed...

Hahaaha.

So, you're going to go the EXTREMELY religious route and say "Sorry for SEEMING to be Judgemental" and then when I call you out on it fall back on, "Who are you to Judge?!"

The title of your fucking thread is a Judgement passed. By you. So, I wouldn't say I "passed judgement upon" you. I just stated a fact. Here's a "judgement" if that's the way you want to go with this... I think you're failing miserably to be rational in the slightest. In fact, you've destroyed your case entirely by the responses you've given. You're not only not responding, you're showing an extreme pig headed attitude that screams "I'm better than you". Every response is condescending. By not just manning up and admitting that you did judge everyone here, you decided instead to side step and claim (or at least attempt to steer) this conversation into how I'm no one to Judge if for no other reason beyond my Faith.

"Interesting" is the only word I can possibly think of to describe your views of everyone else.

[Turf1600]

Wow have not read all the thread but I can see the bleeding hearts are out in force in this one.

Dancing in the streets is ok when you over throw your govt and kill women children and civilians in the protest, while installing radical new leadership.

But when the man responsible for over 3k peoples death in a little over 3 hours, all for a fanatical religious view answerer's for his actions is not ok???? You really dont get it do you.

That said though are we Better than that YES WE ARE, and the vast majority are. What I find even more disturbing is the teenagers now a days dont even know who this guy was or why this is a big deal.

I never said it was ok in the first place. That's exactly my point. If it's wrong for them to be thrilled when the towers fell then why is okay for us to be when their people die? We are behaving the same way they did which is not right.

On the last paragraph - I agree. Sad.

[Turf1600]

Hahaaha.

So, you're going to go the EXTREMELY religious route and say "Sorry for SEEMING to be Judgemental" and then when I call you out on it fall back on, "Who are you to Judge?!"

The title of your fucking thread is a Judgement passed. By you. So, I wouldn't say I "passed judgement upon" you. I just stated a fact. Here's a "judgement" if that's the way you want to go with this... I think you're failing miserably to be rational in the slightest. In fact, you've destroyed your case entirely by the responses you've given. You're not only not responding, you're showing an extreme pig headed attitude that screams "I'm better than you". Every response is condescending. By not just manning up and admitting that you did judge everyone here, you decided instead to side step and claim (or at least attempt to steer) this conversation into how I'm no one to Judge if for no other reason beyond my Faith.

"Interesting" is the only word I can possibly think of to describe your views of everyone else.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I just apologized for my words and said that I noted by irrational behavior. Your response was to continue to tell me that I was wrong for what I already apologized for.

In the event that I wasn't clear enough - Sorry for stating my opinions in a way that appeared to pass judgement. I did not intend to. I don't know any of you and therefore can not form a valid opinion based upon such limited contact. I have noted my mis-step and will learn from the experience. I'm open to other rational opinions on the matter and would enjoy a good discussion regarding the events that have taken place.

[mrsleeve]

I wouldn't say so. As I said earlier I'm seeking alternative perspectives that I may not have considered. As of right now no one has made a rational, ethical argument that differs from my own. It's all emotionally charged, vengeful sentiment.

You really have to be fucking kidding me here. I suggest you step off that high ass horse before you fall and break your neck.

I am going to ask you 2 questions before I begin.

1: How old are you????

2: Where were you when you 1st saw/heard the trade centers were on fire??? (please tell me it was not in Mrs Wheller's 3rd grade class room)

As to the reasoning of why. Some times there is no moral and ethical high ground when dealing with shit bags that will sacrifice themselves and anyone else with out remorse to achieve their fucked up objectives.

1) The fucker was on record from his own mouth as being the planner of 9/11

2) Had said repeatedly he would never be taken alive.

3) associated with guys who build the shit necessary to blow them selves up. If he had a fucking snuggie on he was a threat to the Breech team and they will deal with it accordingly. (you dont fuck with SEALS or spec Ops they mean srs bidness)

4) If he even made a move that looked like it would have been for a weapon (hence the never taken alive thing) those very very amped up high strung guys with guns and lots of training that had spent the last 10 mins getting shot at were going to defend them selves. (you dont fuck with SEALS or spec Ops, they mean srs bidness)

5) If taken alive he would have been brought over here and tired and executed anyway either way he ends up dead this way was just the expedited fashion. He fucked with a SEAL team, you only get to learn that lesson 1 time.

6) Did I mention there is not enlightened moral way to deal with people that have a 12th century mind set and willing to brutalize anyone who stands in the way of the implementation of those ideals???

7) some times the best way to fight fire is with fire you know.

8) You get sucker punched in the gut do you not retaliate with force and defend your self??? You pose a risk to mine or my families life I will not hesitate to respond accordingly. (I see this is where you and I differ)



Fuck me if its true and there are many more like you that think like this, we really are a doomed society and species.

[Turf1600]

God I hate altruistic idiots.

I hope for the day when you actually have to acknowledge reality.

I'm not delusional in any sense. I just try to make the best of it.

"Let your life be your argument"