No real cuts have been made

[Vedubin01]

:p

[Kruzen]

Hmm. Do you include the people born with disabilities in this? How about my severely autistic nephew? Should he get a government handout (prison or an institution) when his parents die or be left to wander the streets with the homeless? What about people that are just chemically imbalanced, which accounts for roughly 40% of prisoners? I have a cousin who is manic depressive and lives in Alaska only because they have the best state support for people like her. (Apparently a lot of nuts live in Alaska). Without the support she wanders the streets, prostitutes, does drugs, etc. She's fucking nuts. What would you do with these kinds of people in your perfect libertarian utopia, tell them to work harder?

Do you include the people born with disabilities in this?

Yeah, being disabled doesn't mean you get free shit. You either help yourself or get help from your loved ones. If you dont' have loved ones go to a church or organization like the red cross or march of dimes or whatever the fuck.

How about my severely autistic nephew? Should he get a government handout (prison or an institution) when his parents die or be left to wander the streets with the homeless?

Sounds like you already know this is a potential option. Maybe you should do something to prepare for it? Otherwise yes, poor planning leads to bad execution

What about people that are just chemically imbalanced, which accounts for roughly 40% of prisoners?Is prison a handout for those people?

What about them? You 100% didn't make any points here. Our incarceration rate is extreme in the US, there's plenty of consumer tax burden to be lifted by reducing our incarceration rate. Chemical imbalances have nothing to do with this.

I have a cousin who is manic depressive and lives in Alaska only because they have the best state support for people like her. (Apparently a lot of nuts live in Alaska). Without the support she wanders the streets, prostitutes, does drugs, etc. She's fucking nuts. What would you do with these kinds of people in your perfect libertarian utopia, tell them to work harder?

Sounds like your family has lots of issues. Stephen Hawking has had amyotrophic lateral sclerosis for the last 20+ years and has been to fucking space! Sounds like your family has some catching up to do.

You should be there for your cousin as a family. The government isn't your mom's titties. If you don't care enough to be there, then your sister will probably die unless someone else does. That's life.

[Kruzen]

I'm an atheist so church is out. I don't think the red cross gives out student loans for college. If it wasn't for the student loans I wouldn't have gone to college. I guess we could revert back to 1700s lifestyle and all live like the Amish if you want to eliminate government. I don't think the majority would support this choice though.

Arrogance and pride is more of an issue than atheism with getting help from a church. If the government wasn't giving out student loans, colleges wouldn't cost so much

[z31maniac]

I would like to get back to this rather than the tired old handouts debate.. We've been over that more than a few times on here, yes?

I'm curious how big these loopholes are. You think if they actually lowered taxes but closed them we'd actually be pulling in more money? That would at least be more FAIR to the rest of businesses which can't take advantage of the tax breaks.

If you close the loopholes, then the businesses will just move operations overseas. Corporations aren't going to give up their profit margin just for some false notion of corporate responsibility.

Hell, look at U2 who has moved the base of operations OUT OF IRELAND to avoid the tax liability. So they go around the world, spreading the message of socialism and it's outstanding qualities, yet refuse to contribute to the tax base that allows everything they preach.

The answer is dramatically reduce, or preferably eliminate, the corporate income tax.

[Wiglaf]

Probably has nothing to do with having the second-highest corporate tax rate in the world, filled with loopholes that make shifting money around easy. Thank you lobbyists.


I'm still waiting for our self-admitted, barefooted hippie to explain to me how raising the minimum wage will not affect the cost of goods or service.

I would like to get back to this rather than the tired old handouts debate.. We've been over that more than a few times on here, yes?

I'm curious how big these loopholes are. You think if they actually lowered taxes but closed them we'd actually be pulling in more money? That would at least be more FAIR to the rest of businesses which can't take advantage of the tax breaks.

[herbivor]

1st EVERY ONE is guaranteed opportunity to make something of their lives in the USA, its the results that are not guaranteed.

Hmm. Do you include the people born with disabilities in this? How about my severely autistic nephew? Should he get a government handout (prison or an institution) when his parents die or be left to wander the streets with the homeless? What about people that are just chemically imbalanced, which accounts for roughly 40% of prisoners? Is prison a handout for those people? I have a cousin who is manic depressive and lives in Alaska only because they have the best state support for people like her. (Apparently a lot of nuts live in Alaska). Without the support she wanders the streets, prostitutes, does drugs, etc. She's fucking nuts. What would you do with these kinds of people in your perfect libertarian utopia, tell them to work harder?

[z31maniac]

And an iphone.

Yep, what is considered "poverty" in this country is pretty funny.

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...hat-is-poverty

"As scholar James Q. Wilson has stated, “The poorest Americans today live a better life than all but the richest persons a hundred years ago.”[3] In 2005, the typical household defined as poor by the government had a car and air conditioning. For entertainment, the household had two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR. If there were children, especially boys, in the home, the family had a game system, such as an Xbox or a PlayStation.[4] In the kitchen, the household had a refrigerator, an oven and stove, and a microwave. Other household conveniences included a clothes washer, clothes dryer, ceiling fans, a cordless phone, and a coffee maker."



And didn't Pennsylvania just determine that cell phones were a right?

http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/capito...#ixzz1TrgxELho

[Ryan Stewart]

Like most on welfare, they already have a job.

And an iphone.

[z31maniac]

All this rhetoric about "job killing taxes" is pretty weak when they are at the lowest and companies are shifting jobs overseas faster than ever, or just outright sitting on huge piles of cash.

Probably has nothing to do with having the second-highest corporate tax rate in the world, filled with loopholes that make shifting money around easy. Thank you lobbyists.


I'm still waiting for our self-admitted, barefooted hippie to explain to me how raising the minimum wage will not affect the cost of goods or service.

[KenC]

They get a job?

Like most on welfare, they already have a job.

[Dozyproductions]

LOL no more so than the guy we have now......................or do you mean Al La JFK tinfoil hattery for going against the "shadow govt" and threatening to out and disband the FED.

There's been crazier things.

Besides, we can't agree on everything.

[mrsleeve]

I will just leave this here

[mrsleeve]

I was the only one she could turn to. My grandparents (midwestern republicans) told her to stop asking for handouts and work harder. You're suggesting I should have quit college at 18 to find a job working minimum wage in order to support my sister before she turned to the government?? How would I even be able to support myself doing that let alone her?? And how would that have been better for us or society as a whole than accepting minimal aid from the government?? What a fuck-tard. I sure am glad I didn't follow your advise. We got by with just enough help from the government, Now we both make plenty of money and I'm glad my taxes have probably covered what she used in "hand-outs" and then some, creating a net positive for the government and society as a whole.

Libertarianism would be a great ideology if everyone had the same opportunity and everyone thought the same. Unfortunately that's not the real world and you guys can't begin to understand the struggles and unfortunate circumstances other people might be going through. If you ever have some shitty luck and come to the brink of homelessness or poor health and can't afford to help yourself or be helped by your family, I bet you'd have a different opinion of government aid realy quick.

Oh take this whinny woes me its not fair pile of shit and blow it out your ass. Its an insult to Millions of people both living and long passed, that have come to this country to make something for them selves.

1st EVERY ONE is guaranteed opportunity to make something of their lives in the USA, its the results that are not guaranteed. The real world is that you cant keep taking from those that make/earn/have, and give it to those that refuse to just because that can afford it. That is Socialism end of story.

The problem with socialism is that you will eventually run out of other peoples money - Marget Thacher

Oh whaa I needed help I was in college I could not drop out, all I could get is a minimum wage job. BULL SHIT. I have not had a minimum wage job in MY LIFE even when I was in High School and yeah I had a job when I was in Middle school too. Never in my life have I made JUST minimum wage. If thats all you can get you get 2 of them then. There is no substitute for hard work, and constantly developing real world skill sets.

Its not instant gratification to pull your self outta the shit pile, I have been on my own since I was 17, I have had some help over the years from family I get along with and friends families. I have been so broke I could not rub 2 pennies together, and I have been way down on my luck too, In HS my Jr and Sr year I was working full time, going to school, and taking care of my dying father when I was not at either of those. I have been outta work for over 8 months before, I have been so broke the choice between rent and heath insurance payments and food is a shitty choice. I chose the former and had to barrow money for food. I have been in Debts way over my eyeballs and have worked my ass off to pay them off in full. Dont tell me how bad it can get, I have been down there, (sure other people have been in worse) and evey time though HARD WORK, patients and determination I have come out top and I am where I am now.

I have worked my ass off since I was about 12 years old, I continue to make sacrifices that most people scoff at, and say I would never do that. I do it because its the only real way to drag your sorry ass outta the shit heaps, its how our grandparents did it, its how their parents did it and its how this country was founded. Every one is equal its our actions in life that make the difference in where we end up.

Your little feel good rant and those who think the same, do nothing but slap those of us that have worked and earned every single thing we have with blood, sweat, sacrifice, and time. To take from us to give to those who refuse to help them selves is counter to EVERYTHING THIS COUNTRY STANDS FOR, and I find your entitlement attitude disgusting.

Your grandparents were right to say fuck off, I would bet they had given her help before (I know thats how mine would have handled it). I like how you have to bring in the political affiliation to "justify how evil and mean they are" because they didnt help you all out. They did that out of love, because you will never learn anything if its always handed to you, see our govt entitlements.

A wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson.

[joshh]

How do you address those without supportive and/or abusive families?

They get a job?

[herbivor]

I see this as this is the problem. Your sister turned and expected the Government to help before turning and expecting her family to.

In my family, if this would have happened, we would have pulled out of school or did what ever and helped our own before they turned to someone else much less the government for help.

I'm glad you were raised with enough family values to be able to tell everyone else what what is best...

I was the only one she could turn to. My grandparents (midwestern republicans) told her to stop asking for handouts and work harder. You're suggesting I should have quit college at 18 to find a job working minimum wage in order to support my sister before she turned to the government?? How would I even be able to support myself doing that let alone her?? And how would that have been better for us or society as a whole than accepting minimal aid from the government?? What a fuck-tard. I sure am glad I didn't follow your advise. We got by with just enough help from the government, Now we both make plenty of money and I'm glad my taxes have probably covered what she used in "hand-outs" and then some, creating a net positive for the government and society as a whole.

Libertarianism would be a great ideology if everyone had the same opportunity and everyone thought the same. Unfortunately that's not the real world and you guys can't begin to understand the struggles and unfortunate circumstances other people might be going through. If you ever have some shitty luck and come to the brink of homelessness or poor health and can't afford to help yourself or be helped by your family, I bet you'd have a different opinion of government aid realy quick.