tell me it isn't so......the sun??

[BraveUlysses]

thanks for the link to the book
i'll see if i can download it to my iPad

obviously anyone that has written an article denying the AGW arguent cannot be trusted

Anyone who argues in absolutes...something something.

[Massimo]

Ok I am completely lost is there actually any hard evidance that GW is or is not happening, or is all we have is theories based on test?

Because I is see is a lot of butt hurt people that just want there way. I don't believe GW is happening, but I support all the goverment spending on green energy.

1. It is reducing the smog in the cities.
2. It is creating alot of jobs. Which is what we need in todays economic climate.

So I do not see why there is such a huge fucking debat about something that is good for everyone no matter how you look at it.

On saying that their is no doupt that there are down sides. Here in Aus we have a GW tax coming in soon, so prices on most products will rise, but it will also create more jobs and more jobs means more money.

[z31maniac]

2. It is creating alot of jobs. Which is what we need in todays economic climate.

Creating "A LOT" of jobs, eh?

Have any evidence to back that up? Because so far, in America and worldwide, the ratio of money spent:jobs created is absolutely terrible.

In Spain for example, http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a2PHwqAs7BS0

http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/20...reen-jobs.html

You'll be able to find plenty more if you look.

[HarryPotter]

the temperature of the tailpipe on your S...U...VHEYYY is hatterr thann the surface of the sun.

[Massimo]

Creating "A LOT" of jobs, eh?

Have any evidence to back that up? Because so far, in America and worldwide, the ratio of money spent:jobs created is absolutely terrible.

In Spain for example, http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a2PHwqAs7BS0

http://prairiepundit.blogspot.com/20...reen-jobs.html

You'll be able to find plenty more if you look.

Interesting but that is look at a small picture. Money would also need to go to suppliers, lawyers, engineers and so no. These jobs may not be created because they fall second inline to the money handed out. But these people get this money and buy goods, drive cars on road that need repairing, use electricity from power lines that need upgrading, so on.

This creates high demand in other industries which require more staff. These articals are saying that money goverments hand out disapier into thin air which can't happen it has got to go somewhere.

[klavender1]

My humble opinion is that whenever you mix politics with science, you're fucked. Secondly, was there a study that showed a direct correlation with sun activity (sun spots, etc) with warming? I have no doubt that the earth is warming, but don't believe man has much to do with it. I think that's mans arrogance that he is more important than he actually is.

[ck_taft325is]

I think this is what I was trying to imply:

"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."
Albert Einstein

And another quote from Einstein that sums up my position:

"A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be."
Albert Einstein

Here I thought you where educating us on the scientific method which you're very closely related to and seem to know a bunch about by what you tried to say the first time but failed at and now are trying to validate by giving us your implication in another man's words while summing up absolutely nothing and clarifying nothing.


Yes, that was a run on sentence.

[z31maniac]

Interesting but that is look at a small picture. Money would also need to go to suppliers, lawyers, engineers and so no. These jobs may not be created because they fall second inline to the money handed out. But these people get this money and buy goods, drive cars on road that need repairing, use electricity from power lines that need upgrading, so on.

This creates high demand in other industries which require more staff. These articals are saying that money goverments hand out disapier into thin air which can't happen it has got to go somewhere.

And this is why I'm participating less and less in here.

Facts are presented, people ignore them.

[Morrison]

^

I'm pretty sure he wasn't just choosing to ignore them but rather employing some critical thinking skills. I mean it makes sense that if "green" items need to be produced and if we engineer them and manufacture them here, that human resources are required to do that. And in fact, more recent news on the American home front seems to indicate that the cities where these green companies are located are creating jobs. Often these cities have some of the lowest unemployment rates going.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2011/07/15/american-cities-with-fastest-green-jobs-growth/

[herbivor]

And this is why I'm participating less and less in here.

Facts are presented, people ignore them.

Agreed. We sort of exhausted this debate just recently. For those who think it's sunspots or whatever and GW doesn't exist, feel free to do some reading at our last discussion on this topic here.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=216261

I can say from personal experience, the lack of a green movement and carbon taxing has directly effected my business and personal income negatively. How it all translates into the world economic scale is debatable but I know I personally would be making almost twice my current income if we had some more aggressive regulation or pricing and Code requirements regarding energy consumption. I'm an engineer for those wondering.

[Vedubin01]

I can say from personal experience, the lack of a green movement and carbon taxing has directly effected my business and personal income negatively. How it all translates into the world economic scale is debatable but I know I personally would be making almost twice my current income if we had some more aggressive regulation or pricing and Code requirements regarding energy consumption. I'm an engineer for those wondering.

What kind of business are you an engineer for?

[z31maniac]

That's the problem Herbivor, you should engineer/design products that are competitive without needing an unfair advantage like a subsidy or forced use through regulation.

At least you've finally come clean on your motivation.

[z31maniac]

Oh and for fun....

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Solyndra-Shutting-Down-128802718.html

[Vedubin01]

That's the problem Herbivor, you should engineer/design products that are competitive without needing an unfair advantage like a subsidy or forced use through regulation.

At least you've finally come clean on your motivation.

Bingo!

[gwb72tii]

And this is why I'm participating less and less in here.

Facts are presented, people ignore them.

what i find interesting is just your point
herb will matter of factly dismiss any dissent on AGW on the grounds its already proven, which it most certainly is not "settled" science.
there are plenty of smarter than me or herb scientists that do not support or believe the AGW opinion, but somehow they don't count.
Somehow private industry funded research is less than government funded research. one is biased and the other cannot be.

no wonder its called a new religion.