9-9-9

[Ryann]

Corvallis it lowers EVERYONE'S TAXES

WRONG. After deductions I paid very close to $0 in Federal income tax last year including FICA and SSI.

[CorvallisBMW]

Corvallis it lowers EVERYONE'S TAXES
Again with the missed points, You lose 11.7% taxation off the top that is taken no matter how little you earn or poor you are if you have a job. The PAYROLL taxes that are done away with are more than the FLAT TAX of 9% No matter how little you earn or pay into the system in INCOME tax you will still have more money in your pocket because your not paying into FICA/SSI from payroll deductions anymore.


I dont think ANYONE should not PAY ANY INCOME TAX, everyone should be paying even the poor. When I was really poor I paid income taxes I was not exempted from them. Why should some anyone else be too.

again... TAX CREDITS. If you don't understand them, look them up. If you still don't get it, you're just retarded and beyond hope.

The "11.7" is negated by credits if you're income is below poverty level. Payroll taxes are negated by credits for the same reason. For some reason, even after I pointed it out 2 times, you still are glossing over the fact that deductions and credits will no longer exist, meaning a simple % to % rate comparison is completely inaccurate.

Here, I'll make it really easy for you. Lets take the example of a family of 4 making $50K/year:

Here’s the math

- Gross Income: $50,000
- Subtract the 2010 standard deduction: $11,400 (2011 is $11,600)
- Subtract the personal exemption (essentially the number of people in the house): $14,600 ($3,650 x 4)
- That brings us to a taxable income of $24,000
- The tax on a married couple filing jointly at $24,000: $2,766
- Then, deduct an additional $2,000 ($1,000 child tax credit x 2)
That comes out to just $766. And that doesn’t include other potential exemptions, like educator credits, moving costs, student-loan interest, health-savings accounts, etc

-Under Cain's plan they would loose all of their deduction and credits
-They now pay 9% income tax and 9% sales tax, meaning they are effectively taxed twice on the same income
-An 18% tax on $50,000 equals...
-$9000

Last time I checked, $9000 is more than $766.

Checkmate.

Deal with it.

[mrsleeve]

well if you look a the sponsors of the the think tank listed in the article they read like a list of funding sources at the end of a PBS documentary!!! Some of the richest and most liberal foundations and people are on the list.


yeah when the richest of the "rich" are bashing the shit outta something and saying how bad its going to be, when it comes to money then I get really suspicious.

http://taxpolicycenter.org/aboutus/funders.cfm

[joshh]

And for those who may not know what the 9-9-9 plan is.

http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

[joshh]

Both of you are completely skipping over things like the EIC (earned income credit), child tax credit, deductions, exemptions, etc.

Yes, if you look at your current tax rate, it's more than 9%. But factor in all of those deductions and exemptions and the rate changes dramatically. Since Cain's plan does away with all of those things, a 9% tax rate with zero deductions or credits is significantly higher that what 84% of Americans currently pay.

Again, until you develop a nationally renowned institute with hundreds of employees that collects, interprets and analyzes all of the US's most current tax data, you're just blowing smoke. It's like asking a 2 year old how to perform brain surgery.

You mean a lot like Global Warming...just leave it to the "experts". Just believe them because they said so.

There's no way I can believe that data till they post up all the data. Numbers and all. I'm not even disputing all the information. But a 950% tax increase to those who make shit for money and already pay will over 9% income tax along with many who also pay a sales tax at the same time.
And they're clearly assuming some things in their figures as they never got a hold of Cain or his staff to confirm things on how it would work with credits, deductions and exemptions etc.
Sounds like they just decided to run the numbers knowing they didn't have all the information. Which makes it absolutely pointless and political (?) in meaning.

[mrsleeve]

Corvallis it lowers EVERYONE'S TAXES
Again with the missed points, You lose 11.7% taxation off the top that is taken no matter how little you earn or poor you are if you have a job. The PAYROLL taxes that are done away with are more than the FLAT TAX of 9% No matter how little you earn or pay into the system in INCOME tax you will still have more money in your pocket because your not paying into FICA/SSI from payroll deductions anymore.


I dont think ANYONE should not PAY ANY INCOME TAX, everyone should be paying even the poor. When I was really poor I paid income taxes I was not exempted from them. Why should some or a anyone else be.

[Ryann]

Both of you are completely skipping over things like the EIC (earned income credit), child tax credit, deductions, exemptions, etc.

Yes, if you look at your current tax rate, it's more than 9%. But factor in all of those deductions and exemptions and the rate changes dramatically. Since Cain's plan does away with all of those things, a 9% tax rate with zero deductions or credits is significantly higher that what 84% of Americans currently pay.

This is absolutely true for me.

[CorvallisBMW]

Don't believe me? That's OK. Maybe you'd like to hear from a dedicated life-long conservative. Here's an exerpt from an article by Bruce Bartlett, who was a senior policy advisor in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and served on the staffs of Representatives Jack Kemp and Ron Paul.

'Cain’s plan "cuts taxes for the rich and raises taxes on the poor,” Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the center, tells First Read. He added that it would create a "much more regressive tax system.”

The plan would represent a “major tax cut” for the rich and raise taxes “substantially” on the poor and middle class, Williams said. "Given that a big chunk doesn’t pay any income tax, this would be a big tax increase on people at bottom end. At the top end, the opposite happens."

The top end would go from about a 35% income tax rate to 9%. "That's a big, big drop," Williams said, adding that the capital-gains tax would be another added benefit for the wealthiest. "People at the top would see far and away the largest share of the gains. Those people are going to see a huge tax cut."'

'This means that the 47 percent of tax filers who now pay no federal income taxes will pay 9 percent on their total income. And elimination of the payroll tax won’t even help half of them because the earned income tax credit, which Mr. Cain would abolish, offsets both their income tax liability and their payroll tax payment as well.

Additionally, everyone would now pay a 9 percent sales tax on all purchases. No mention is made of any exemptions from this tax, so we may assume that it will apply to food, medical care, rent, home and auto purchases and a wide variety of other expenditures now exempt from state sales taxes. This would increase their cost of living by 9 percent while, at the same time, the poor would pay income taxes.'

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/inside-the-cain-tax-plan/

[CorvallisBMW]

I don't see how that's remotely possible if I'm paying 15% less in income tax. And the sales tax is based on how much you consume.

Say you average $500.00 a week in spending on items the Feds can tax you on.
$45.00 in taxes per week.

So between my wife's pay and mine you're trying to tell me we're going to get fucked by that (9% income tax and a 9% flat tax on items they can tax you for) instead of paying 24-27% each in income taxes PER WEEK?

Looks to me like it will give us more money to spend on things we want....giving them a few more dollars in taxes. I'm not saying it's a great plan or that it'll work or anything else but the numbers they're giving in that link are a fucking joke.


GE 2010 taxable income at 9%=$1,278,001,278.00

^

some one else who gets how this shit works I have yet to see why its so hard Plus this way everyone is paying something somewhere which I think is important

Ken even at 20k a year when you add FICA/SSI to the 9k taxed at 15% its still more than 9% flat to the tune of nearly double. and since poor people spend most of their money on food ( which I think is not part of the national sales tax) they would prolly come out ahead too if they are careful about their spending

Both of you are completely skipping over things like the EIC (earned income credit), child tax credit, deductions, exemptions, etc.

Yes, if you look at your current tax rate, it's more than 9%. But factor in all of those deductions and exemptions and the rate changes dramatically. Since Cain's plan does away with all of those things, a 9% tax rate with zero deductions or credits is significantly higher that what 84% of Americans currently pay.

Again, until you develop a nationally renowned institute with hundreds of employees that collects, interprets and analyzes all of the US's most current tax data, you're just blowing smoke. It's like asking a 2 year old how to perform brain surgery.

[Ryann]

Unless we're in a time of war, right?

Just spewing some rhetoric. :D

The 16th Amendment unfortunately gave Congress permission to rob us all blind as they see fit during war time or otherwise, and is one of the main reasons things are so fucked up now.

[Joe G]

its 666 in a mirror.





sorry for disrupting a serious thread, i feel it needed some comedic relief. As you were 'gents.

[mrsleeve]

^

some one else who gets how this shit works I have yet to see why its so hard Plus this way everyone is paying something somewhere which I think is important

Ken even at 20k a year when you add FICA/SSI to the 9k taxed at 15% its still more than 9% flat to the tune of nearly double. and since poor people spend most of their money on food ( which I think is not part of the national sales tax) they would prolly come out ahead too if they are careful about their spending

[joshh]

I don't see how that's remotely possible if I'm paying 15% less in income tax. And the sales tax is based on how much you consume.

Say you average $500.00 a week in spending on items the Feds can tax you on.
$45.00 in taxes per week.

So between my wife's pay and mine you're trying to tell me we're going to get fucked by that (9% income tax and a 9% flat tax on items they can tax you for) instead of paying 24-27% each in income taxes PER WEEK?

Looks to me like it will give us more money to spend on things we want....giving them a few more dollars in taxes. I'm not saying it's a great plan or that it'll work or anything else but the numbers they're giving in that link are a fucking joke.


GE 2010 taxable income at 9%=$1,278,001,278.00

[KenC]

I guess the bottom line is that it really puts a boot on the neck of the impoverished.

[mrsleeve]

Well I just know that I had a 10.6k dollar tax bill last year that would have been 6400 under 999. I know that I would not have had to have paid 4+k in FICA and SSI. so there is 8200 more in my pocket that I would have had other wise. Now even if everything I buy is subjected to the 9% national sales tax, and I spend every dime I earned of my GROSS thats 900 for every 10k 9x7 is only 6300.

SO simply put 6300 + 6400 =12,700. Which is less than the 10.6k of income taxes +4k in FICA I paid last year.

14,600-12,700 = 1900 more dollars at the end of the year and the absolute bare minimum difference from the federal level it only lets you keep more the less you spend.

If you plug that into 999 After taxes last year fed and state taxes 6400(fed)+3450(state)= 9850 total income taxes. Which is less than my FED tax bill last year. So if I spent ALL THAT NET INCOME subjected to national sales tax at 900 per 10k 6x900 =5400

My total tax obligation under 999 based on last year (fed+State+Sales) would have been at max 15,250 Opposed to what it really was last year at 18,050 for Fed+State+FICA/SSI. Or I would have had an extra 233 bucks a month in my pocket to spend even if I was spending it ALL.

If I was to watch what I buy and save and invest I would not pay nearly as much of the 9% sales tax there by lowering my burden even more. An put even more money into my pocket and not in the hands of the govt.


Plug your own numbers into the system form your own w2 last year. You will come to a simialr conclusions I would bet.