9-9-9

[mrsleeve]

So move to a state that dose not charge a sales tax

[BraveUlysses]

I'm assuming under the 999 plan, we would be paying 9% in federal sales tax as well as whatever state sales tax we currently pay?

Of course.

[nbio]

I'm assuming under the 999 plan, we would be paying 9% in federal sales tax as well as whatever state sales tax we currently pay?

[herbivor]

It really doesn't matter. Even if he got elected and there was a 60% Republican majority in the house and senate, there will never be a flat tax, especially his plan. Tax lobbyist would never allow it, and let's face it, they run the country. It's unpopular with almost anyone that gets some kind of tax credit, and that's nearly everyone.
Tax deductions and tax credits are good things in a tax system. What our system lacks and needs is a national sales tax and carbon tax. I'll give Cain credit for at least proposing the former.

[mrsleeve]

^

I Was talking about federal taxes (in general) You know what the bulk of this thread is about, I guess I should have been more clear.

WRONG. After deductions I paid very close to $0 in Federal income tax last year including FICA and SSI.

what was that supposed to mean then. You got more back because of your credits and deductions than you paid in income tax to cover your 11.7% FICA right???? Why do I have pay both when I have a shitty year, and you dont????? Why I am punished for not having a kid, and being responsible and not having one until I can afford them. (not implying you didnt its a generalization). Or why should I be punished for not buying a home until I can afford it??


look man You had a shitty year, and god knows I have had my share of them, I have been so broke that Mac and Cheese was outta my food budget. But I never got out of paying taxes Fed or other wise. I feel for you for sure, times are tough.

[Ryann]

You dont pay any taxes (other than Sales and Gas, excise) and seem proud of that, and get credits for your rug rat, yet you reap all the befits of what the rest of us pay for.

Wrong again. I didn't pay much in Federal taxes last year. I did however pay taxes to my local government who actually provides me with tangible services that I use every day.

And how do I seem 'proud of that'?? The fact that I didn't do that well last year sucks for me more than it sucks for Uncle Sam.

[mrsleeve]

You don't pay SHIT for my kids. I do, fuckhead. I've NEVER drawn a dime from unemployment and I support my family without any gov't assistance whatsoever. Last year was a shitty year for me and my Federal income tax reflected that. State not so much.

You dont pay any taxes (other than Sales and Gas, excise) and seem proud of that, and get credits for your rug rat, yet you reap all the befits of what the rest of us pay for. Good your not on entitlements, thats awesome and I commend you for that, and I dont fault you for taking the tax breaks, any reasonable person would if they can get them. The point is like it or not others are paying their share and yours and please tell me how the FUCK that is fair.

Unemployment is something YOU AND YOUR EMPLOYER FUCKING PAY FOR WHILE YOU ARE WORKING. If that was not there in most states it would equal about a 10k a year instant raise.

[joshh]

You don't pay SHIT for my kids. I do, fuckhead. I've NEVER drawn a dime from unemployment and I support my family without any gov't assistance whatsoever. Last year was a shitty year for me and my Federal income tax reflected that. State not so much.

You missed the point. Tax credits for kids....

[joshh]

^
that quote is right from Cains web/plan site. you are flat taxed on your Gross - minus your charitable donations. Unless you live in someplace deemed needing special treatment.

I read the whole two page idea. That does not in any way mean that it would be that simple. Or that other deductions wouldn't be included. They even admitted to not getting a response back from Cain. In other words they did the math with incomplete data to make a point.

[Ryann]

Ahhhh I see you you are one of those that are not paying anything into the system and expect all the benefits from it good for you.

You don't pay SHIT for my kids. I do, fuckhead. I've NEVER drawn a dime from unemployment and I support my family without any gov't assistance whatsoever. Last year was a shitty year for me and my Federal income tax reflected that. State not so much.

To clarify in regards to my Federal income taxes last year: My Federal return was close to the total amount of Federal taxes I paid/was liable to pay INCLUDING FICA and SS. Much less than I would have paid under 9-9-9.

[mrsleeve]

^
that quote is right from Cains web/plan site. you are flat taxed on your Gross - minus your charitable donations. Unless you live in someplace deemed needing special treatment.


What he is assuming, is that you get taxed twice and just adding the percentages, and that is not the case. What his issue is that poor people might have to pay a little something rather than sponge and expect the rest of us to pick up the slack.

[joshh]

^

to be fair he is partially correct

9% Individual Flat Tax.

Gross income less charitable deductions.
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.

Partially correct about what? Yes we would pay more when we buy things but pay way less in income tax.
He's assuming under Cain's plan you get ZERO deductions or tax credits.

[mrsleeve]

^

to be fair he is partially correct

9% Individual Flat Tax.

Gross income less charitable deductions.
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.

[joshh]

The "11.7" is negated by credits if you're income is below poverty level. Payroll taxes are negated by credits for the same reason. For some reason, even after I pointed it out 2 times, you still are glossing over the fact that deductions and credits will no longer exist, meaning a simple % to % rate comparison is completely inaccurate.

Where in his tax plan does it say this?

Here, I'll make it really easy for you. Lets take the example of a family of 4 making $50K/year:

Here’s the math

- Gross Income: $50,000
- Subtract the 2010 standard deduction: $11,400 (2011 is $11,600)
- Subtract the personal exemption (essentially the number of people in the house): $14,600 ($3,650 x 4)
- That brings us to a taxable income of $24,000
- The tax on a married couple filing jointly at $24,000: $2,766

How do they/you know this will even exist under his plan?

- Then, deduct an additional $2,000 ($1,000 child tax credit x 2)
That comes out to just $766. And that doesn’t include other potential exemptions, like educator credits, moving costs, student-loan interest, health-savings accounts, etc

-Under Cain's plan they would loose all of their deduction and credits
-They now pay 9% income tax and 9% sales tax, meaning they are effectively taxed twice on the same income
-An 18% tax on $50,000 equals...
-$9000

Last time I checked, $9000 is more than $766.

Checkmate.

Deal with it.

Another assumption?

[mrsleeve]

Ahhhh I see you you are one of those that are not paying anything into the system and expect all the benefits from it good for you.


You are not taxed at an effective 18% rate because you are not going spend all your money on things that 1: will be subject to the sales tax 2: IF YOU FUCKING SAVE IT. And since fucking when do you get a credit/deduction for your FICA/SSI contributions???? Oh wait you are thinking thats the standard deduction you can take right ????

And I ran my number earlier and showed you the 100% opposite of your example even figuring at the correct taxable percentages. EVERYONE SHOULD BE PAYING and YOU and ME should not be Subsiding Ryann's kid.