9-9-9

[Eric]

'Cain’s plan "cuts taxes for the rich and raises taxes on the poor,” Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the center, tells First Read. He added that it would create a "much more regressive tax system.”

The plan would represent a “major tax cut” for the rich and raise taxes “substantially” on the poor and middle class, Williams said. "Given that a big chunk doesn’t pay any income tax, this would be a big tax increase on people at bottom end. At the top end, the opposite happens."

Maybe it's a bit too obvious, but if the "poor" pay zero, then anything above zero will become a tax increase. The 15th Amendment gave everybody equal rights correct? Good, pay your damn equal percentage.

[mrsleeve]

A VAT in my mind prevents corruption, because it taxes the good at every level regardless of whether the person buying it declares themselves as a consumer or not. Hence, no more falsely declaring yourself as not being the end consumer when you are indeed the end consumer and thereby evading the normal sales tax.

It is confusing and math intensive, but at the end of the day the consumer doesn't pay any more than they would have anyway, and there is less tax evasion.

Umm you dont seem to quite understand the real implications of how a VAT works. Here I will help, and be a little more clear this time

First it shifts the burden of tax reporting and collecting to the organization aor business. They now become tax collectors for the state(much much more than they are now) and with that burden comes the additional expense of extra regulations, procedures and compliance; money and resources that could be otherwise invested in research, or as a distribution to the shareholders. There would still be some govt organization responsible for the auditing, collecting and compliance enforcement, it just wouldn't be called the IRS, and would grant the govt even more power over industry and by default all of us.

The VAT creates several layers of taxation that makes it difficult to track what your total liability is. In addition, it makes it easy for politicians to raise taxes since tax rates at specific layers could be identified and increased through obscure and misleading code. This would allow special treatment of one industry or company in political favor or at odds. For example, the clean water act of 2013 could have a supply VAT transfer rate increase of .08% included as a provision. Who would know what was and who would care? It's only .08% of an increase. Ideally you would want one basic rate that everyone knows and is easy to calculate so when the politicians want to raise your taxes they'll have to announce the basic corporate rate is being increased from 10% to 11% for example. With a VAT the politicians can hide in the quagmire of of vague and confusing legislation, not so with a Flat national sales tax charged ONLY ONE FUCKING TIME at the retail level, not every time a middle man touches it.

[CorvallisBMW]

Where in his tax plan does it say this?

Umm... in the very first page. Did you bother to read it?

How do they/you know this will even exist under his plan?

That's under the current tax system. If you don't understand basic deductions and credits, go look them up.

Another assumption?

No, again it's straight from the very first page of his tax plan.

Funny how you try to argue against me having not ever read or researched the very topic we're debating. Typical troll.

[CorvallisBMW]

Umm you dont seem to quite understand the real implications of how a VAT works. Here I will help, and be a little more clear this time

First it shifts the burden of tax reporting and collecting to the organization aor business. They now become tax collectors for the state(much much more than they are now) and with that burden comes the additional expense of extra regulations, procedures and compliance; money and resources that could be otherwise invested in research, or as a distribution to the shareholders. There would still be some govt organization responsible for the auditing, collecting and compliance enforcement, it just wouldn't be called the IRS, and would grant the govt even more power over industry and by default all of us.

The VAT creates several layers of taxation that makes it difficult to track what your total liability is. In addition, it makes it easy for politicians to raise taxes since tax rates at specific layers could be identified and increased through obscure and misleading code. This would allow special treatment of one industry or company in political favor or at odds. For example, the clean water act of 2013 could have a supply VAT transfer rate increase of .08% included as a provision. Who would know what was and who would care? It's only .08% of an increase. Ideally you would want one basic rate that everyone knows and is easy to calculate so when the politicians want to raise your taxes they'll have to announce the basic corporate rate is being increased from 10% to 11% for example. With a VAT the politicians can hide in the quagmire of of vague and confusing legislation, not so with a Flat national sales tax charged ONLY ONE FUCKING TIME at the retail level, not every time a middle man touches it.

I don't know a whole lot about the inner workings of a VAT, but from what I do know most of this is actually true. There are, however, many benefits as well. A quick google search of 'VAT vs sales tax' results in lots of good info.

http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&gcx=w&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=sales+tax+vs+VAT

[mrsleeve]

^

You say that like you doubted me ;)

[joshh]

Umm... in the very first page. Did you bother to read it?




That's under the current tax system. If you don't understand basic deductions and credits, go look them up.



No, again it's straight from the very first page of his tax plan.

Funny how you try to argue against me having not ever read or researched the very topic we're debating. Typical troll.

As usual you're far to fucking ignorant to even realize this may simply be a basic idea the guy came up with. No clarification was made on shit. They even admitted it. It's far too broad to even bother doing math with...but yet they did anyways...because like you, you have an axe to grind without even knowing the specifics (if there are more) of the fucking plan.
Let alone the fact they know that no matter what the plan is, it would never be accepted with the current condition of Congress.

[CorvallisBMW]

The details are there in his plan. Repeal of all tax deductions? check. Repeal of all tax credits? check. It's all there on Cain's own website. No assumptions were made in my analysis, if you bothered to do your research

[joshh]

The details are there in his plan. Repeal of all tax deductions? check. Repeal of all tax credits? check. It's all there on Cain's own website. No assumptions were made in my analysis, if you bothered to do your research

Then they tried to contact him why?

[CorvallisBMW]

Jesus you're dense...

[ck_taft325is]

I read approx. 5 posts.


Either way I feel fucked. Good game.

[joshh]

Jesus you're dense...

Yes because I'm so dense I'm having to point out the obvious to you.

[KenC]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/leonardb...sional-policy/

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...ises-view.html

[CorvallisBMW]

^ and we thought 9-9-9 was the dumbest tax idea ever lol