Global Warming is over.

[z31maniac]

My buddy is a strong libertarian, lives out in the country, built a super efficient house, is skeptical about AGW, but has done the math and figured out that solar panels are cheaper for him in the long run. I'll be helping him install them in a few months. (He's trying to get a lower cost group buy with a friend). So here is a guy who gives 2 shits about AGW, but is smart enough to realize there is value and security in investing is alternative energy sources. I don't understand why others on the right are so resistant.

(PS I'm all for alternative energy. I want my first "eco" mod to be new windows and a solar water heater)

Does it really?

I was under the impression that the payback time for solar tended to be longer than the panels last........even in places like OK that have CHEAP energy. And that the panels continually become less efficient over time.

Am I mistaken about that?

[herbivor]

(PS I'm all for alternative energy. I want my first "eco" mod to be new windows and a solar water heater)

Does it really?

I was under the impression that the payback time for solar tended to be longer than the panels last........even in places like OK that have CHEAP energy. And that the panels continually become less efficient over time.

Am I mistaken about that?

Every situation is different. In some places it is still not cheaper, but with better and cheaper technology recently...AND the tax credits, the math worked out in his favor. Take the Tax credits away and I think it was a wash for his situation. I did the math on my current house built in 1941, and money is better spent on windows and spray foam attic insulation rather than solar panels.

[ficklerx]

I can agree with the above. Fully believe that solar is an excellent alternative to the inevitable cost increases associated with fossil fuels providing electricity. My 'green' motivation is saving money.

My current goal is to complete an installation with at least 20 panels before the federal and state tax credits end. My roof of my garage faces due south with no shade. Perfect setup except I would like more space for more panels.

Currently, my cost would only be 35% after federal and state credits. The state credit must be divided over 4 yrs but it is still 35%. My power company will use net metering and does buy from 'green' producers for greater than the current amount charged. That program, however, has a waiting list.

Too many reasons not to get this done in the next 12 to 18 months. Most panels are guaranteed to produce at 90% for 10 yrs and 80% for 20 yrs.

Does anyone have any feedback on the cost of installation? There are several websites to purchase from but no real guidance on installation. I love DIY but do not trust myself with things that can burn my house down.

[mrsleeve]

I can agree with the above. Fully believe that solar is an excellent alternative to the inevitable cost increases associated with fossil fuels providing electricity. My 'green' motivation is saving money.

My current goal is to complete an installation with at least 20 panels before the federal and state tax credits end. My roof of my garage faces due south with no shade. Perfect setup except I would like more space for more panels.

Currently, my cost would only be 35% after federal and state credits. The state credit must be divided over 4 yrs but it is still 35%. My power company will use net metering and does buy from 'green' producers for greater than the current amount charged. That program, however, has a waiting list.

Too many reasons not to get this done in the next 12 to 18 months. Most panels are guaranteed to produce at 90% for 10 yrs and 80% for 20 yrs.

Does anyone have any feedback on the cost of installation? There are several websites to purchase from but no real guidance on installation. I love DIY but do not trust myself with things that can burn my house down.

So your goal is to save money only if its at the expense of the rest of us paying for the equipment, for you????.

If you really were green and wanted to save the earth with solar panels then you would be doing it with out the Tax credit, and not be worried about the cost. But thats where the rubber meets the road so to speak now isnt it, it will not save you money unless you have someone else provide a large portion of the costs too you. Just like the rest of the green energy sector, its all a house of cards.


You tree hugers crack me up

[cale]

No surprise that people don't want to invest their money in attempt to save more in the long run, people are fucking greedy. It's not simply those who believe serious environmental damage is being done by humans that do that (tree huggers), look how many businesses export their labour abroad. You damn well best believe they're doing so because it makes financial sense, despite the negative impacts on American jobs.

[mrsleeve]

Again you guys are all high an mighty about all this green shit, but most of you are unwilling to put your money where you mouth is, you have to rely on the rest of us to foot a large part of the bill for you. Ideals die at the waist when the wallet has to back them up. I want a pool at my house will guys help me pay to make that improvement to my home ???? No you say, then why do I have to help pay for the green mod of the day at your house ????


Just want you guys to be honest with your selves

[gwb72tii]

My buddy is a strong libertarian, lives out in the country, built a super efficient house, is skeptical about AGW, but has done the math and figured out that solar panels are cheaper for him in the long run. I'll be helping him install them in a few months. (He's trying to get a lower cost group buy with a friend). So here is a guy who gives 2 shits about AGW, but is smart enough to realize there is value and security in investing is alternative energy sources. I don't understand why others on the right are so resistant.

maybe because you can't pencil it out?
if i were building anew home i might do the same thing in an effort to get off the grid as far as possible.
nobody like to pay more than they have to for energy, and that's why with a few exceptions solar doesn't work.

[cale]

Again you guys are all high an mighty about all this green shit, but most of you are unwilling to put your money where you mouth is, you have to rely on the rest of us to foot a large part of the bill for you. Ideals die at the waist when the wallet has to back them up. I want a pool at my house will guys help me pay to make that improvement to my home ???? No you say, then why do I have to help pay for the green mod of the day at your house ????


Just want you guys to be honest with your selves

Most of us? C'mon you can't just generalize like that. Do you not take tax breaks or write what you can off? As a trade's man, I know you do. He's taking advantage of something the government provides, who are you to condemn him for it?

Regardless of the validity of the AGW argument, our grandchildren and great-grandchildren are going to need to adopt greener energy methods not necessarily for ethical reason but out of necessity. Fossil fuels ARE going to die out, that is a fact..so here's a question for you...should we work out the kinks with renewable energy sources now or should we keep down the road we're headed? You seem plenty willing to keep burning oil/coal/gas resources and condemn the government for putting efforts into researching renewable ones. I don't want to get into corruption and the government and Solyndra BS, I just want a straight up answer if you think it's necessary to invest in research and the perfection of those technologies.

[u3b3rg33k]

Fossil fuels ARE going to die out, that is a fact..

Oh really? Nothing has fossilized in the last few millennia, right?

[cale]

Oh really? Nothing has fossilized in the last few millennia, right?

I'm not sure if you're serious, but I pray you are not. Do you have any idea how long it takes for organic matter to become the fuels we are presently using? The rate at which they replenish is so slow that you can essentially say that they are not replenishing, we're talking millions of years. So the last few millenia? Wrong time scale bud, 3 cheers for ignorance! Hip hip...

[u3b3rg33k]

I'm not sure if you're serious, but I pray you are not. Do you have any idea how long it takes for organic matter to become the fuels we are presently using? The rate at which they replenish is so slow that you can essentially say that they are not replenishing, we're talking millions of years. So the last few millenia? Wrong time scale bud, 3 cheers for ignorance! Hip hip...

Nor have they been for the past few million years, apparently...

And by rate do you mean time per unit, or volume per unit time? I totally mean the latter.

[cale]

It doesn't matter which definition of rate you choose to use, they replenish so slowly compared to how quickly we use them up that they simply cannot keep up to the volume of our demand. Quit fishing for an argument where a logical one cannot be had, I corrected myself and said essentially. Are you really going to argue that the would-be fuels the earth is currently processing into something we could use makes fossil fuels renewable because that seems to be the direction you're headed.

[mrsleeve]

Most of us? C'mon you can't just generalize like that. Do you not take tax breaks or write what you can off? As a trade's man, I know you do. He's taking advantage of something the government provides, who are you to condemn him for it?

Regardless of the validity of the AGW argument, our grandchildren and great-grandchildren are going to need to adopt greener energy methods not necessarily for ethical reason but out of necessity. Fossil fuels ARE going to die out, that is a fact..so here's a question for you...should we work out the kinks with renewable energy sources now or should we keep down the road we're headed? You seem plenty willing to keep burning oil/coal/gas resources and condemn the government for putting efforts into researching renewable ones. I don't want to get into corruption and the government and Solyndra BS, I just want a straight up answer if you think it's necessary to invest in research and the perfection of those technologies.

No actually I get fucked, I get nothing but the standard deduction for my self. Its why my effective tax rate is 30%. I can't write anything off

Sure if you guys want to pay for it' then someone will build it for you. But I feel its unreasonable to make me and everyone else help pay for it for your home

[u3b3rg33k]

It doesn't matter which definition of rate you choose to use, they replenish so slowly compared to how quickly we use them up that they simply cannot keep up to the volume of our demand.

Out of curiosity, how fast (barrels / year) do they replenish? I have no idea, so I figured you might.

[herbivor]

No actually I get fucked, I get nothing but the standard deduction for my self. Its why my effective tax rate is 30%. I can't write anything off

Sure if you guys want to pay for it' then someone will build it for you. But I feel its unreasonable to make me and everyone else help pay for it for your home

The way my libertarian friend worded it is that he's just keeping his own money instead of giving it to the government. No one is paying for his solar panels. That's one way to look at it, or you can look at it your way. I could care less either way. The tax Code is littered with deductions, credits, and incentives. Of all the shitty ones out there, a solar panel credit is not one I'm going to gripe over.