Pisses me off: Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 (H.R. 4170)

[FredK]

I agree with you that it's a bad idea.

Allow me to digress. College is an institution of higher learning. For most college students in the US, it is at an age where you begin to find yourself, socially and intellectually. I'm not going to deny there are people steeped with a sense of entitlement post-graduation, but it really stretches across the whole spectrum of majors and concentrations. Sure, as a whole, young people are idealistic and narcissistic. That is the stupidity of youth, and a bit of misguided parenting thrown into the mix.

I used to think, "liberal arts majors LOL." But as I've grown older I've softened my stance. Not everyone is right brain dominant. Sure it's hard to monetize the skills as a left brainer, but don't force a square peg into a round hole. Are you suggesting that these people should learn CNC programming instead of East African studies?

[JTDay]

OP, I agree unequivocally. Its a personal slap in the face. Those people with the "entitlement syndrome" are worthless individuals.

[dantheman]

Sorry, I'm confused. Can someone explain to me in plain English what they are trying to say here:

"IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall carry out a program (to be known as the ‘10/10 Loan Forgiveness Program’) to forgive a qualified loan amount, in accordance with paragraph (3), on an eligible loan for a borrower who, after the date that is 10 years prior to the date of enactment of the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012, has made 120 monthly payments on the eligible loan pursuant to any one or a combination of the following:"

What do they mean by the statement in bold?

[rwh11385]

I agree with you that it's a bad idea.

Allow me to digress. College is an institution of higher learning. For most college students in the US, it is at an age where you begin to find yourself, socially and intellectually. I'm not going to deny there are people steeped with a sense of entitlement post-graduation, but it really stretches across the whole spectrum of majors and concentrations. Sure, as a whole, young people are idealistic and narcissistic. That is the stupidity of youth, and a bit of misguided parenting thrown into the mix.

I used to think, "liberal arts majors LOL." But as I've grown older I've softened my stance. Not everyone is right brain dominant. Sure it's hard to monetize the skills as a left brainer, but don't force a square peg into a round hole. Are you suggesting that these people should learn CNC programming instead of East African studies?

Actually, based on the number of people who feel like their life is like Office Space and some people end up enjoying building things than writing TPS reports, yes. There is an empty feeling for many people who are bored in cubicles and selling insurance or whatnot, and people burnt out and want to do something productive. Some are going back to organic farming, or building Lego sculptures, or crafting furniture. Some people may be vastly happier in their lives if they worked in high-tech manufacturing at a niche facility that had them make cool things and didn't have the yawn environment of a typical corporate cube farm. Of course, if they had some practical skill or technical ability, they also have the ability to do much more than simply learning history and writing papers... and can be entrepreneurs and create jobs. (Not just complain about not having one) Obviously not buying their own CNC machine necessarily, but people who can fabricate can produce more than just "start-up" ideas.

But more importantly, I think people shouldn't take out loans to study East African studies, or anything "studies". Humanities and other visual arts have high unemployment and low salaries, which makes repaying loans more challenging / less likely. Either people can react to market realities and make better choices or at least take responsibility for them, or only offer loans to STEM majors... but people wouldn't like that, right? The nation needs more STEM and skilled factory workers, yet have a surplus of "studies" and art history majors. It's inefficient.

If their parents are loaded and they want to blow their money, so be it. That's their parent's problems and fortunately not the taxpayer's.

But we really ought to stop subsidizing student loan debt, mortgage debt, etc. If it makes financial sense to buy something, don't encourage people to go into debt to do so.

More people ought to be working throughout college if they don't think they can afford their student loans. I don't care if you study underwater basketweaving and really want to work for Longerberger if you pay your way through and don't look to the government for a bailout. But studying something you KNOW doesn't lead to a good career, building massive debt, and then acting surprised and entitled to a better life... not good for America.

[Gerta]

I would need to see para 3 and the section after the :" but I interpret it as - You can get forgiveness for loans up to 10 years prior to the date that this Act was established, as long as you have been making payments for 10 years or 120 payments (you could in essence be responsible and paying off your debt).

[Slangbox]

As a current undergrad at a relatively expensive public university (University of Washington, Seattle), I'm regretful to report that I already see this attitude in current undergrads. They don't even wait to graduate before they start complaining about how much debt they're in and how unfair it is. I sympathize with the fact that not everyone can learn a marketable trade, but it's beyond me why some of these kids come to an expensive school to earn a liberal arts degree that would be nearly as good from a local community college.

[Dozyproductions]

But many major in _____ "studies" and have a disgust for the corporate world and feel "too good" for manual labor.

.

I only quote this because I haven't read the rest of the thread and I am agreeing with what you post beyond this. We should have a disgust with the corporate world. I'm sorry but if human existence was left to them, they would openly and freely destroy it for useless profits. Try to prove me wrong on that.

[Dozyproductions]

qoops!

[z31maniac]

As a current undergrad at a relatively expensive public university (University of Washington, Seattle), I'm regretful to report that I already see this attitude in current undergrads. They don't even wait to graduate before they start complaining about how much debt they're in and how unfair it is. I sympathize with the fact that not everyone can learn a marketable trade, but it's beyond me why some of these kids come to an expensive school to earn a liberal arts degree that would be nearly as good from a local community college.

Even if you are getting a marketable degree, do what my roommate did.

Work AND go to school. He put in 50hours a week as a restaurant manager and took a 12 hour per semester course load.

I'll admit, I was lazy as fuck and wanted to party my ass off in college, so I did just that and took out loans. But I had absolutely no thought that I wouldn't be paying them back.

And frankly, it was a worthwhile investment.

[devon.818]

so by me taking out a 10k student loan to get into a blue collar field is a good move...its funny someone at my dealership asked me if people still want to work on cars as a job, i didn't really understand what he meant at first and just told him all i know is i do. but the whole, liberal arts BS and there are plenty of kids who went to school and dont get jobs in a field they want kind of says to me, yes, this generation(mine) want suits not uniforms. me, im happy getting dirty, i like feeling satisfaction from working with my hands.

[rwh11385]

I only quote this because I haven't read the rest of the thread and I am agreeing with what you post beyond this. We should have a disgust with the corporate world. I'm sorry but if human existence was left to them, they would openly and freely destroy it for useless profits. Try to prove me wrong on that.

That's a pretty simplified way of looking at the world. Sure, there are evil and toxic companies, but what % of the total do you think that really is. If consumers start buying more from "socially responsible" companies, will they move in kind? From recent business moves and investments, it seem that there is a trend of companies being more than just about profits and the bottom line. Many companies are very charitable and have done a lot for the world as far as development and innovation.

http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679523/h...nability-cause
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679529/h...ucation-crisis
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679451/a...a-cheaper-bill
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679426/a...er-by-products
http://www.fastcompany.com/1739029/p...t-based-bottle

http://www.thecleanestline.com/2011/11/dont-buy-this-jacket-black-friday-and-the-new-york-times.html

Those are just some articles I had readily available and recent, but corporate activism is a growing trend I am seeing and more people (especially the young ones) are wanting to feel good about what they do, not just about making money. None of those things a company has to do to do what they do, but rather are choosing to do. (Freedom allows them to do so as well, we just as a society need to communicate what we want from the companies we buy from)

Those obviously are just some examples, another being Tom's [shoes]: http://www.toms.com/blog/node/296

Is Tom's an evil and profit-hungry corporation too?

[Farbin Kaiber]

Tom's is terrible, getting poor third world children hooked on shoes. In a generation, they will have created millions, if not billions of people with feet too tender to walk barefoot, thus capitalizing on an untapped market.

[Dozyproductions]

That's a pretty simplified way of looking at the world. Sure, there are evil and toxic companies, but what % of the total do you think that really is. If consumers start buying more from "socially responsible" companies, will they move in kind? From recent business moves and investments, it seem that there is a trend of companies being more than just about profits and the bottom line. Many companies are very charitable and have done a lot for the world as far as development and innovation.

http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679523/h...nability-cause
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679529/h...ucation-crisis
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679451/a...a-cheaper-bill
http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679426/a...er-by-products
http://www.fastcompany.com/1739029/p...t-based-bottle

http://www.thecleanestline.com/2011/11/dont-buy-this-jacket-black-friday-and-the-new-york-times.html

Those are just some articles I had readily available and recent, but corporate activism is a growing trend I am seeing and more people (especially the young ones) are wanting to feel good about what they do, not just about making money. None of those things a company has to do to do what they do, but rather are choosing to do. (Freedom allows them to do so as well, we just as a society need to communicate what we want from the companies we buy from)

Those obviously are just some examples, another being Tom's [shoes]: http://www.toms.com/blog/node/296

Is Tom's an evil and profit-hungry corporation too?

Show me the money trail of the people who own the majority of the corporations and nations in this world and how history is unfolding itself. You think that a couple of articles is going to convince anyone otherwise? Look at what a big multi-national corporation has to gain by goodwill before believing that their acts are for goodwill first. Of course I know you know this so I don't know why I have to say this. Just because not everyone is in the club doesn't mean the club doesn't have a ruling share in society.

[rwh11385]

Show me the money trail of the people who own the majority of the corporations and nations in this world and how history is unfolding itself. You think that a couple of articles is going to convince anyone otherwise? Look at what a big multi-national corporation has to gain by goodwill before believing that their acts are for goodwill first. Of course I know you know this so I don't know why I have to say this. Just because not everyone is in the club doesn't mean the club doesn't have a ruling share in society.

If you really think that all corporations are evil and will destroy the earth, don't buy from them at all. Shop with credit unions, co-ops, and non-profits. Eventually, consumers and their choices will influence the other companies to act.

Look at Bank of America and how they got reamed by their policies and a flood of people to local banks and credit unions. Buy from customer-owned businesses. Buy from local energy cooperatives who only use their US-produced oil to make gas and deliver good customer service.

Just assuming that every company in the world is evil and has no soul is kinda dark and depressing. Why assume you have no ability to influence that?


In my case, I'll continue to support businesses who innovate and also give back as well as recycle, service their old products, and support some cause that is important to them. But maybe I'm an optimist.

[M-technik-3]

Call you local representative and congressman/woman and express your concern about why you are giving folks a free ride.

It has to be paid for some how and you are not willing to pay for it in taxes. They willing signed their name to the contract saying that they would pay the money back with interest, now man up and pay the money back.