Chick-fil-a

[rwh11385]

well, that's a letdown- i expected more from mr scholarly rectitude than a mealy-mouth evasion.

in spite of your wishful prognostications the fact that a solid majority of Americans have consistently voted against you on the issue shows that not anythime soon will one of the 1600 close.

good luck with your angst.

Hmmm, was is this? Where exactly is your point?


I wasn't aware that the majority of Americans have ever voted about same-sex marriage, let alone several times.

[Arems87e]

Congratulations! Seems like the only demographic that came out to vote were Evangelicals

[frankenbeemer]

If the cake shop refused to make cakes for African Americans for MLK day, would you expect people to protest? Would then it be alright? Is it just because it's the gays that are complaining do you find issue?

And for a business, being anti-gay marriage in Colorado is MORONIC. That'd be like someone in ID or UT being anti-Mormon.

It depends. I would not protest a business which refused to make MLK cakes if they refused because they believe MLK does not deserve a holiday. They may believe that other historical figures who do not have a holiday are more deserving than MLK. I would not feel the same if the reason was based on race.

As an aside, I don't think the population of Colorado is in homogeneous agreement enough to prevent the last sentence from being illogical, if not hyperbolic.

I usually agree with mrsleeve, but I am convinced that hetero or homo is no more a choice than race. That leads me to question myself. Would I applaud the City of Boston if they actively opposed the KKK opening a chicken sandwich shop there? What if they did not discriminate in their hiring and service, yet actively supported legislation to reintroduce segregation?

[rwh11385]

Since the support for same sex marriage is rising that you claim, why is it then that whenever it's put up for ballot, it's always been voted down; even in the gay state of California. Majority of the country wants to leave the gays alone so they could be with whomever they want to. If an independent establishment doesn't shear your social view, then boycott, don't patronize the place and protest. It's going to have a negative effect on some people def. or it might bring new customers to the place, then move on.

You're so quick to calling people names such as BIGOT, ignorant and shit, and you are nothing but that yourself. After almost 30 pages of this discussion you're still yet to change a single mind. Both sides have achieve nothing but make each side vehemently adhere to their believe, which has been the case with me.

Whenever it's on the ballot, it's a proposition or amendment that people are doing to limit other's rights. And even if it is a "gay state", there are still a lot of people who want to shit on gays.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Catholics-Mormons-allied-to-pass-Prop-8-3185965.php

-- 84 percent of those who attend church weekly voted yes.
-- 81 percent of white evangelicals voted yes.
-- 65 percent of white Protestants voted yes.
-- 64 percent of Catholics voted yes. Catholics accounted for 30 percent of all voters.

Catholic support increased from 44 percent to 64 percent - a jump that accounted for 6 percent of the total California electorate and equivalent to the state's entire African American population combined.

The shift in Catholics alone more than accounted for Prop. 8's 5 percent margin of victory.

How can a company shear my social view?


And you're wrong, I changed, or at least modified, one mind. Maybe you should open yours.

Page 9:

I totally see eye to eye with you, with the fact that you don't want to defend some one's willful actions, as compared to that of someone who was born with a "unique/ strange/ damaged/ abnormal" brain make up. And see, while I agree with that, I see it in the same light as I would another person with a similar issue in the way the brain is contracted, i.e. a serial killer, sadistic teenager, strongly depressed individual etc etc. In that, while it is something they cannot necessarily help, it is still something that I find morally, naturally and fundamentally wrong. And in the same way that the aforementioned groups of people need help and counseling, so too, I believe do those "born" gay. Again, that is my opinion, and not something I plan to, or want to force onto to somebody. I understand others viewpoints, and their world views. And I totally understand that you or anyone else may find it disgusting that I find gays/ lesbians wrong, especially the right to marriage, but that is simply my opinion.

Page 21:

While I still do not agree with homosexuality in a numerous amount of ways, it seems hypocritical to consider them equal, and to treat them the same etc etc, yet deny them a simple right like marriage, or any sort of right in this kind of sense. Especially when it does nothing but create controversy on both sides of the issue. And although this country has many seemingly theistic elements in its Constitution and laws, the fact that I don't necessarily agree with homosexuality, there is nothing that explicitly denies that freedom from a political perspective.

See, I'm not close minded or bigoted, it just takes personal research to convince me :D

[2761377]

They no longer are going to be doing something that they have done = backstep. They said they knew it wouldn't be popular but oh well, then said OH SHIT.

well, that's a letdown- i expected more from mr scholarly rectitude than a mealy-mouth evasion.

in spite of your wishful prognostications the fact that a solid majority of Americans have consistently voted against you on the issue shows that not anythime soon will one of the 1600 close.

good luck with your angst.

[bernzpeed]

[Arems87e]

The tide of support for same-sex marriage is rising, and yes - if you have paid attention to the news at all, it does matter or CFA wouldn't have backstepped their position. And none of this controversy would be there if it didn't matter. But people care if others want to poop on other's civil rights - even if bigots want to write it off as self-righteousness.

People should just say, "they made their stand and now have to deal with it."

But there's people like Farbin who want to protect prejudice from social recoil.

Since the support for same sex marriage is rising that you claim, why is it then that whenever it's put up for ballot, it's always been voted down; even in the gay state of California. Majority of the country wants to leave the gays alone so they could be with whomever they want to. If an independent establishment doesn't shear your social view, then boycott, don't patronize the place and protest. It's going to have a negative effect on some people def. or it might bring new customers to the place, then move on.

You're so quick to calling people names such as BIGOT, ignorant and shit, and you are nothing but that yourself. After almost 30 pages of this discussion you're still yet to change a single mind. Both sides have achieve nothing but make each side vehemently adhere to their believe, which has been the case with me.

[HarryPotter]

lol

[Farbin Kaiber]

I bet her girlfriend took the picture.

[bernzpeed]

[Farbin Kaiber]

It's a basic human right.

See Article 2, and Article 5 of The Universal Declaration of Human Rights from the UN.

Also see Article 27, whereby I am limited to partake, and participate in many activities designed for individuals of smaller stature.

[rwh11385]

please explain how they have 'backstepped'- the only semi-relational comment i can find is that CFA, as of 19 July, will no longer engage in the public discourse over same-sex 'marriage'. they did not commit to stopping the offensive donations. which, by the way, the LGBT community has been stewing about for years only now finding an excuse to set up a political clamor.

let people protest- it won't hurt CFA's base at all. some commentators are predicting backlash against the protest. we'll see.

private citizens may protest, but the threatened zoning refusal in Chicago is ripe for lawsuit- abidging first amendments rights and so on.

Thomas Jefferson said-


this quote is particularly instructive in that it implies Jefferson's belief in one god, which has been questioned here before.

They no longer are going to be doing something that they have done = backstep. They said they knew it wouldn't be popular but oh well, then said OH SHIT.

Maybe in the South that is fully of Evangelicals and Blue Laws, but places like Chicago and others, there's a lot of LGBT. I know bigotry might have strong roots in the South and Middle America, but over time there are fewer and fewer people who are against same-sex marriage and more for it... which will mean a decreasing base.

[rwh11385]

What do I need to do to get being tall on this Protected Minority status, should I file a ADA lawsuit to get doorways to be legislated taller, or urinals to be high enough that I don't pee on top of them, or enough legroom in movie theaters, or tables at public restaurants high enough to fit under?


You know what, I fucking deal with it, I've learned that that's the way the world is setup, with the majority in mind when things are designed, and since I'm a minority, I don't go chasing businesses to change their standards to suit my uniqueness.

I don't think it's fair to view mildly inconvenient construction standards as prejudice. No one said "Fuck that guy - I'm building tiny doors".

Dude, are you again so ridiculous to equate being uncomfortable in a seat or ducking for a doorway to the fundamental right of being able to marry?

Public places and businesses are to made reasonable accommodations - like height-adjustable desks / chairs at work, but it's not like you are prevented from entering establishments because you have to stoop under the door frame. And like Turf said, it's not like they designed or intentionally worked against you. It's not like someone is plotting on how to limit you, and it's also not like you are disabled.

Loosely calling people whiny for wanting civil rights is again pretty weak.

[2761377]

if you have paid attention to the news at all, it does matter or CFA wouldn't have backstepped their position.

please explain how they have 'backstepped'- the only semi-relational comment i can find is that CFA, as of 19 July, will no longer engage in the public discourse over same-sex 'marriage'. they did not commit to stopping the offensive donations. which, by the way, the LGBT community has been stewing about for years only now finding an excuse to set up a political clamor.

let people protest- it won't hurt CFA's base at all. some commentators are predicting backlash against the protest. we'll see.

private citizens may protest, but the threatened zoning refusal in Chicago is ripe for lawsuit- abidging first amendments rights and so on.

Thomas Jefferson said-

"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

this quote is particularly instructive in that it implies Jefferson's belief in one god, which has been questioned here before.

[rwh11385]

Do you believe that most fat people are fat because of genetics? I don't. When I was in school, people rode bikes or walked to school, and even for the bus riders, there was PE, and it wasn't an option. There were maybe, out of 200 kids, one or two that were fat. Now, the fat kids are in an ever increasing majority... But we had a couple of kids that were also "different". No one used the terms gay or lesbian then, you just only ever saw them with people of the same sex. The percentages of GLBT population haven't swelled since then like it should have, if it was just a choice to be made in an already promiscuous and relatively anonymous society.

My children come from the same two parents so they are genetically similar, however, their temperaments are different as night and day, and were so from very early ages. Where does that come from? Some people are just "different". Many are hetero, but the fact that time and time again, homosexuality arises even in cultures that try to suppress it with excommunication and possibly the death penalty, should tell you it's a little more complicated than just waking up one morning and not wanting to put your dick into vaginas any more.

Well said.

The truth is people always judged without understanding, and now we know more and stop treating it as much as an illness or defect, so we can learn the differences we ignored previously. Stuff like the digit ratio shows that hormones in the womb influence sexuality rate, as well as both orientation behavior / demeanor. Just because the ignorant think people are just acting or can decide to change you they are, it doesn't mean that is accurate.