General Motors Is Headed For Bankruptcy -- Again

[Jorgen]

If GM were to go bankrupt properly, its assets would be liquidated and sold to other companies. If the void created in the market is smaller then the size of GM that means GM was to big to be efficient in its industry. Employees will find employment in either the other auto manufacturers who will fill the created demand. Any employees who are left unemployed are employees that the industry can not efficiently support.

First off the massive unemployment that initially would have been caused (OEM's, suppliers, support companies, trucking companies, surrounding businesses) would make finding new work very difficult for many people (many of which may not actually deserve the jobs they have but that is a different arguement). I guess the government backstopping all those unemployment claims isn't tax money at all, because unemployment insurance certainly covers all of the losses (you know thats a lie). Follow this with the losses of tax revnue locally and nationally, absolute slaughtering (worse than we saw) of home prices and at minimum locallized foreclosure rates that would have further impacted banks (I sure hope you didn't want them bailed out). This will lead to losses of jobs in the public safety and education sectors since they are paid with the now missing tax money. Next comes the pension gauruntees, the government backstops those as well. All that money that was on the books at GM and Chrysler was still going to be paid to the people, you can argue they shouldnt' get that I'm sure but you know they would. The additional losses due to loss of confidence I don't even want to start to discuss.

There wasn't option for selling something as large as GM as pieces. All of their brands and models are so intermeshed and parts bin engineered you would have to have companies that would need to work together for years or a large investment from a single new owner, that worked so well with Cerberus owning Chrysler why not try is again on the other side of town.

I will never convince you how great the losses could be and you are always going to convince yourself that somehow the government is out to fuck you and spend your hard earned money on something you don't support.

[Wiglaf]

I hate to be a dick but if your only customer is GM then you kind of fail as a supplier. Especially after so much warning. That's just continued mediocrity.

[Massimo]

You all have no idea what you are talking about German car manufacoters are heavily subsidised, that is they never have a problem with going under because government just helps them out more.

[dirtysix]

Like Holden? Oh wait...

[dannyyisntt]

This thread is full of people that have no idea about the automotive industry or how it works. Makes me lol

[Wiglaf]

This thread is full of people that have no idea about the automotive industry or how it works. Makes me lol

apparently how it works and how it should work have been drifting apart.

[dannyyisntt]

apparently how it works and how it should work have been drifting apart.

Ouch well played (sarcasm).

Actually more specifically what I find humorous is the idea people have that if a plant goes under "more jobs will fill the void." Because that's worked so well for flint and Detroit after all.

That theory is a lazy persons effort to say things will work themselves out. How about we come to your region, state, or home town and take your jobs away and see how you feel about it. I'm not justifying their actions as a corporation, but I do feel that what our nation, and my home state, needs are jobs. Not unemployment.

[Ryan Stewart]

The 2008 redesign Malibu was a move in a slightly better direction, but like its sibling I drove a lot, the G6, it still had room to improve. (same matte grey) But look at the vette interior, not even in the same ballpark C5 vs C6.

I was decently happy with my Elantra in Miami a while ago, but my recent Cruze rental was much better. Soft black vinyl, not dull hard plastic like the G6.

Yeah, it's hard to get cheap and good. After complaining about quality for years, now people notice prices rise when companies decide to make better cars. Then again, it seems people consider it a better value.

Ford had a better Focus for years than what we got in the States, but didn't think we'd pay what it would cost to sell it here, so they limped the shitbox 2nd gen slightly updated while Europe got a good one. I think people are happier now - but gas prices made smaller cars more popular instead of just for broke asses who can't afford anything else.

I havent been in the Cruze but I have been in a few C6s and, while they are better than their predecessors, price wise they are competing with still far superior packages. They are great if you are looking for cheap speed but as a whole car the build still lets the side down. Hell, even the redesigned CTS-V, which I love the styling and power, still feels like it was built on a budget.

However, they have nothing on Jag. Those have been the biggest letdown of late to me. They look and feel like they have been put together with used parts off of late 90s Fords. Inexcusable for the money they charge.

[Ryan Stewart]

This thread is full of people that have no idea about the automotive industry or how it works. Makes me lol

How about this. Lets frame this from the viewpoint of the consumer. I couldnt give a fuck how the industry works. I want a car that meets my needs for the money I am willing to spend.

Ive been car shopping for a while, after being impressed with some recent Fords as rentals I decided to re-shop the Americans. Despite not really being a fan of the E90x body that is still where I ended up. Not because Im a homer, because everything else was absolute shit of if they were as good as the BMW were the same or more money. Even cars that I swear were decent just a few years ago (Impreza).

You know what? Maybe its unfair to expect better value for money from American car makers but when you are coming from behind attempting to recover market share that is exactly what you have to do. Not match the companies that were beating you, best them.

[dannyyisntt]

How about this. Lets frame this from the viewpoint of the consumer. I couldnt give a fuck how the industry works. I want a car that meets my needs for the money I am willing to spend.

Ive been car shopping for a while, after being impressed with some recent Fords as rentals I decided to re-shop the Americans. Despite not really being a fan of the E90x body that is still where I ended up. Not because Im a homer, because everything else was absolute shit of if they were as good as the BMW were the same or more money. Even cars that I swear were decent just a few years ago (Impreza).

You know what? Maybe its unfair to expect better value for money from American car makers but when you are coming from behind attempting to recover market share that is exactly what you have to do. Not match the companies that were beating you, best them.

That's based upon your personal opinion. Not on facts. You as a person don't represent "the consumer" as a whole. You represent yourself as an individual consumer.

One person may say they love subway, another person may say they hate it. That's how an individual opinion such as what you've displayed works.

[Ryan Stewart]

That's based upon your personal opinion. Not on facts. You as a person don't represent "the consumer" as a whole. You represent yourself as an individual consumer.

One person may say they love subway, another person may say they hate it. That's how an individual opinion such as what you've displayed works.

Well, seeing as how companies like GM and Chrysler aren't doing so hot outside of pickups maybe I'm not so unique after all.

[dannyyisntt]

Well, seeing as how companies like GM and Chrysler aren't doing so hot outside of pickups maybe I'm not so unique after all.

Thats a weak argument. Or perhaps the economy isn't doing so hot? Seems like there might be a few more things in play other than opinions.

[Jorgen]

I hate to be a dick but if your only customer is GM then you kind of fail as a supplier. Especially after so much warning. That's just continued mediocrity.

I wouldn't go that far. The only people who work with only one OEM are typically the small firms trying to make it. They haven't got the capital to expand yet and are trying to just make it work. If you can't expand your production capability you basically are stuck with limited business options.

That being said, my company works with basically every OEM world wide (yes including BMW) with local sales spread across the Detroit three, transplant business and tier 2 business. we rank as a top supplier worldwide and in north america. If GM and Chrysler had been dismantled or lost there would have been extreme job loss at our detroit engineering offices and our plants in Ohio and Kentucky. We supply to much more than just them but that loss would have still had major impacts on job levels. You don't have to only work with one company to be hit by their loss. Say you do a billion in sales a year and next year there is a major loss and you are only going to have potential of 600M, there would need to be some extreme cuts right even though you still supply over half a billion worth of components.

[Vedubin01]

maybe you should start looking for other methods of employment.

[Wiglaf]

how about this. Lets frame this from the viewpoint of the consumer. I couldnt give a fuck how the industry works. I want a car that meets my needs for the money i am willing to spend.

Ive been car shopping for a while, after being impressed with some recent fords as rentals i decided to re-shop the americans. Despite not really being a fan of the e90x body that is still where i ended up. Not because im a homer, because everything else was absolute shit of if they were as good as the bmw were the same or more money. Even cars that i swear were decent just a few years ago (impreza).

You know what? Maybe its unfair to expect better value for money from american car makers but when you are coming from behind attempting to recover market share that is exactly what you have to do. Not match the companies that were beating you, best them.

THIS.

Know what really sucks? Reading all the hype about our little Lordstown, OH plant getting to make the Cruz, all the hype.. then I check out the car and it fucking blows. Might as well be a re-skinned cavalier. The economy is only average, the power is below average, the transmission takes 2 seconds to respond to anything. And it ain't that cheap. I'm not gonna cave and buy that just cause it was made in my state. They need to do better.