Word to Rioting Muslims

[Jib05]

Good muslims should speak out more like this and ban together to force the shitty ones out.

In my conversations with a good friend of mine (who is a devout Muslim), this is the main difference between Islam and Christianity that I have found.

Islam teaches retaliation ("eye for an eye"), while Christianity teaches forgiveness instead of retaliation ("turn the other cheek"). Now, I don't speak for all Christians of course (as I am sure someone will bring up the Crusades here), but that is what I believe anyway.

So I can see how the theme of retaliation can be easily twisted by the "bad" Muslims to their own means, which I suppose is the main driver behind these heinous acts.

I also wonder why more Muslims don't publicly speak out against the radicals and their crimes.

This, i totally agree. Even i don't know why people don't speak out to those who mess it up for the rest of us that follow Islam. More fear as to what they will do to us i guess. as for the crusades... well yeah lol its done and we will leave it at that.

I see how people can be driven toward thinking Islam is about being aggressors, but in the way Ive been taught(since i was very young) is to say "let it go" rather than to hang on to anger and pain. In any circumstance that is a bad thing.

Edit: Not sure if its really 100% "eye for an eye" but everyone has the option of forgiveness, and that is sometimes maybe the hardest thing to do. We are always to taught to ask for forgiveness to Allah(god) even if we don't know what we have done wrong lol

I'm glad that people can understand that its an older lost generation that tried to impose stupid and absolutely ridiculous laws that are apparently "Islam" upon the next. I'm quite disappointed that people who are calling themselves Muslims don't even do any research into what the are being brainwashed to believe.

Again my 2c (4c now lol)

[iamsam]

The text of the Qur'an that relates to violence roughly translates to, retaliate when attacked...

In my conversations with a good friend of mine (who is a devout Muslim), this is the main difference between Islam and Christianity that I have found.

Islam teaches retaliation ("eye for an eye"), while Christianity teaches forgiveness instead of retaliation ("turn the other cheek"). Now, I don't speak for all Christians of course (as I am sure someone will bring up the Crusades here), but that is what I believe anyway.

So I can see how the theme of retaliation can be easily twisted by the "bad" Muslims to their own means, which I suppose is the main driver behind these heinous acts.

I also wonder why more Muslims don't publicly speak out against the radicals and their crimes.

[Thizzelle]

Good muslims should speak out more like this and ban together to force the shitty ones out.

[Jib05]

lol just read every comment on here, i personally have not ever, in any single instance have been taught it is OK to harm or kill someone. neither has any of my teachers or any elder of mine have ever told me to go kill someone in the name of Allah(god).

You have to understand that the Qur'an is sometimes translated by some (unfortunately usually Indian men) in such a manner that the emphasis of the text is to kill, take over or even that females are inferior. My whole life even in going to learn about my own faith, I have NEVER been taught it is OK to hit a female.

The text of the Qur'an that relates to violence roughly translates to, retaliate when attacked, but when your attacker stops, you MUST also stop IMMEDIATELY(don't quote me on that But Ive been taught from Hadith that it it wise to avoid any violence or conflict if i can.

I don't take offense by any comments posted here against my faith, it is open to discussion and I would be shocked if someone took this thread down. Not all the publicity my faith gets is good (actually none, go figure).

also the importance of killing in the name of Allah. The importance of that is that it is justified and is within laws of the land you live within and within laws of Islam. I have not seen any killings by these rioters or militants in my lifetime that is justified in my religion. I personally feel my faith has not been attacked by anyone that would call for such radical measures. Although some things people say, do test it.

The people you see rioting about such nonsense like the movie or what ever it is, are not very good Muslims. I'm not saying I support the movie? play? picture? I'm not gonna go kill someone over it.



my 2c

:up:

[evandael]

If I'm not mistaken( excuse me, It's been a while since I did a short reading of/ study of the Quran, but doesn't the whole thing practically preach on the importance of killing in the name of Allah? I seem to remember it being nothing but violence, like the OT on steroids. Again, It's been a while, but that was my take away.

Wow, no. Unless that is your interpretation of every religious text, then yeah, sure.

[Kershaw]

Ohh cute Lee broke his promise to never return

I thought I saw a ghost!

Islam doesn't call for killing everything, but it does call for conquering everything.

[FunfGan]

If I'm not mistaken( excuse me, It's been a while since I did a short reading of/ study of the Quran, but doesn't the whole thing practically preach on the importance of killing in the name of Allah? I seem to remember it being nothing but violence, like the OT on steroids. Again, It's been a while, but that was my take away.

[evandael]

a lot of people just don't take the time to understand what they're afraid of.

there are muslim extremists and there are progressive muslims and there are people who are just plain in the middle of the road, who live normal lives and just happen to have a religion that they may or may not practice. yet some of you would lump them all into your misinformed view of Islam.. asserting that near 1 billion people on the planet must all be terroristic, homicidal, misogynistic, American-hating maniacs.


i'm not religious, i don't agree with a lot of foreign policy, i love neither America nor any other sovereign nation above others. what i do wish is for some of you to seriously examine your flawed logic.

[z31maniac]

Your own argument falls apart in your last little quip. But just for the sake of argument, why does it matter what the source of morality is, as long as it is practiced without perverting it's intent? Do you find issue with democracy originating from the French Revolution? I am no fan of religion, but good people have done good things in the name of their beliefs.

Because religions claim morality as their own. That without religion, you can't have morality.

I was pointing out "The Golden" rule was espoused centuries before modern religion took it as its own.

[BraveUlysses]

Ohh cute Lee broke his promise to never return

[Fusion]

What they are doing is comparable to an E30 owner group going out and damaging and burning Honda civics, rioting, because a Civic owner made a half-assed movie criticizing e30's. No matter what religion, I'd like to think humans are civilized enough to discuss their differences on a calm level. But these conflicts show that some aren't capable to do so.

[2761377]

No. Please continue this story. In what ways does a largely practiced religion, the second largest in the world, differ from other religions, specifically the two other Abrahamic religions? What are these 'special evils'?

obviously you are ignorant of the text of the Koran which specifically advocates killing all Jews and non-believers. nothing in the covenant brought by jesus promotes violence.

You are using the evil and misguided acts of perhaps less than .1% of the world's Muslims to denigrate all.

I would also like to discuss these Western values you find under attack, and maybe open up a discourse on how the same Western values are threats to Eastern values.. you know, people's lives and culture we have no business to impose on. Look at all sides of the coin before you toss, buddy.

i couldn't care less what Western values are considered threats by muslims. the right of free speech, of freedom of (and from for you athieists) religion are important parts of a secular government that tries to protect all citizens not just those who are co-religionists.

and by the way, surely you reject the misogyny of islam while you defend it, right? or do you hate women too?

[cale]

What 'group' guides your morality? Do you cheat on your S.O? Do you beg borrow and steal? Murder? Do you curse your parents and beat your children?These and many other principles did not just spring up out of thin air.. people have come to accept them throughout the ages and the interpretation of various religions have played a key part in that process.
.

A societal one.

All the examples you gave were unacceptable behavior in pre-Christian societies, so were they influence by the abrahamic religions as well? Give me a break.

[evandael]

Sure there is when it is the religion telling them to do those things and it is their developed sense of morality preventing them from doing so. That needs to be acknowledged.

The Qu'ran define Jihad and Fatwa respectively; a struggle, or striving to advance one's own religious experience, the need to defend the religion if it is found under attack, and a fatwa is a non-secular 'legal opinion'.

Modern extremists have twisted the words to suit their regime and evil intent, and Western media has played along, twisting the words to take on these other, less benevolent meanings.

muslim and islam are not the same.

Correct. Kind of like how Judaism and Jew are not the same. A Muslim is a person who practices Islam.

You mean the morality that modern religions took from the Greek and Roman philosophers? The ones they developed centuries before the Bible or the Koran was written.

The morality that says people are not to harm or be harmed?

Go back to America's hat.

Your own argument falls apart in your last little quip. But just for the sake of argument, why does it matter what the source of morality is, as long as it is practiced without perverting it's intent? Do you find issue with democracy originating from the French Revolution? I am no fan of religion, but good people have done good things in the name of their beliefs.

..the evil acts of one *snip* to denigrate all... if you can't or are unwilling understand the special evil found in islam you have no moral compass... islam is a threat to Western values. end of story.

No. Please continue this story. In what ways does a largely practiced religion, the second largest in the world, differ from other religions, specifically the two other Abrahamic religions? What are these 'special evils'? You are using the evil and misguided acts of perhaps less than .1% of the world's Muslims to denigrate all.

I would also like to discuss these Western values you find under attack, and maybe open up a discourse on how the same Western values are threats to Eastern values.. you know, people's lives and culture we have no business to impose on. Look at all sides of the coin before you toss, buddy.

I'm not guided by dogma, I live by a a group sense of morality.

Blind? Choosing to believe as I do after surveying the damage religion does is the exact opposite of blind, it's a conclusion I've made after actually giving it some thought. Feel free to go pound salt if you think anything other than respecting all religions for the sake of not hurting feelings is blind.

What 'group' guides your morality? Do you cheat on your S.O? Do you beg borrow and steal? Murder? Do you curse your parents and beat your children?These and many other principles did not just spring up out of thin air.. people have come to accept them throughout the ages and the interpretation of various religions have played a key part in that process.



To all: the world is a tiny place and like it or not, religion has guided history and shaped our lives, each and every one of us. You don't have to agree with them, you don't have to adhere to them, but don't deny their presence in both global discourse and human history. Also, try to learn more about what you are afraid of or don't understand. You may not find it so frightening after all, and will save yourself from perpetuating blind fear and hate-mongering.

[2761377]

Please let us know which religion you practice. Are you Jewish? Christian? Do you think your religion stands for higher morality than any other? That needs to be acknowledged too because so far, I have read more blind hate than wisdom in your comments. Doesn't look good for the religion by which you stand. :hitler:

that some hard core athieism, there eh? using the evil acts of one religion to denigrate all.

if you can't or are unwilling understand the special evil found in islam you have no moral compass.

BTW, aren't you the guy who defended the sept 11 attacks and muslim outrage on the roadfly 2002 forum back then? maybe your defense of islam here is not after all based on athiestic principles.

islam is a threat to Western values. end of story.