Presidential debate...

[Cliche Guevara]

There's no such thing as a perfect economic model, but a 100% unregulated market is just as scary as communism.

[joshh]

Still...

Look, I know Obama will carry Oregon by a comfortable margin. That's why I voted for Gary Johnson. He's the candidate I prefer, and my vote is 1 more to add to his national tally. The more votes 3rd party candidates get, the more seriously they will be taken. It may be naive but I like to think that I'm doing my part, however small, to help that.

So what you mean by that is since you know Obama is going to win the vote count in Oregon already you don't need to vote for him so you're going to vote for Gary instead. BUT if Obama was in trouble you'd have voted for him? Is that correct?

[rwh11385]

I've always felt that libertarians tend to have an unrealistic adoration of the unfettered free-market.

I think it's not just one-side or one group who has a too extreme view of all-or-nothing for things. There may be some groups that are more prone to it and blowing things out of proportion... but everyone could understand there are assumptions and shortcomings to all economic ideologies. A valuable influence was a class that challenges all of our assumptions and bias and views, with this book being meaningful: http://www.amazon.com/Curious-Enligh.../dp/1859840736


Even Bono is learning he can't just act like a douche about aid, and turns out them 'job creators' can be valuable in effecting change.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyols...ism-and-nerds/

The Irish singer and co-founder of ONE, a campaigning group that fights poverty and disease in Africa, said it had been “a humbling thing for me” to realize the importance of capitalism and entrepreneurialism in philanthropy, particularly as someone who “got into this as a righteous anger activist with all the cliches.”

“Job creators and innovators are just the key, and aid is just a bridge,” he told an audience of 200 leading technology entrepreneurs and investors at the F.ounders tech conference in Dublin. “We see it as startup money, investment in new countries. A humbling thing was to learn the role of commerce.”

I see a rise of social enterprise which is good as innovative businesses and technology can deliver a lot more help than simply bureaucrats blowing government money on old broken methods. Like: http://www.fastcodesign.com/1670355/...ons-of-lives#4 Turning a jug cooler into a human-powered washing machine allows these women to have free time to hopefully get out of poverty by spending that time creating or working. Small efforts like that could help to increase productivity and economic growth globally.

[Cliche Guevara]

I have much more respect for Gary Johnson than I do for Obama, but I agree with Obama's stances to a far greater degree than I do with Johnson's and I see Obama pursuing his policies much more aggressively in his second term. I've always felt that libertarians tend to have an unrealistic adoration of the unfettered free-market.

[pureaudio]

I considered voting for Obama, not that I am a huge supporter but I don't disagree with everything he has done and the party that I have aligned myself since I could cast a legal vote has failed me. I will be giving my vote to Gary Johnson instead. My state is already decided anyways and the more votes Johnson gets, maybe people will realize there are more than 2 choices.

[LBJefferies]

Still...

Look, I know Obama will carry Oregon by a comfortable margin. That's why I voted for Gary Johnson. He's the candidate I prefer, and my vote is 1 more to add to his national tally. The more votes 3rd party candidates get, the more seriously they will be taken. It may be naive but I like to think that I'm doing my part, however small, to help that.

Solidarity brother! I voted for Johnson as well.

You, myself, and others here may all disagree on a lot of things. But I think it's safe to say were all pretty collectively sick of the current state of politics in this country. A vote for a third party candidate may not result in that candidate winning, but if enough of us vote it sends a message to the Dems and the GOP that the people are getting fed up with the both of them.

[rwh11385]

Still...

Look, I know Obama will carry Oregon by a comfortable margin. That's why I voted for Gary Johnson. He's the candidate I prefer, and my vote is 1 more to add to his national tally. The more votes 3rd party candidates get, the more seriously they will be taken. It may be naive but I like to think that I'm doing my part, however small, to help that.

My state is the other way with Romney. I could have easily voted for him when he was battling the crazies Newt, Rick, and Rick... but it might have just been he wasn't as bad in comparison. And his older positions were much more agreeable - I lost all respect when he adopted those that were expected by the GOP, instead of how the majority of Americans feel. Similarly some of the people who rallied so hard for Obama were sad when he didn't follow through with some of initial campaign promises. Compared to 2008, he seems more moderate, although the stupid class warfare rhetoric remains. And I think the better of two evils still is a bad choice. And agree that the vote is not wasted if it shows support for another choice in the future.

Still, it is sad to see the GOP go downhill. I happily voted mostly straight ticket Republican the last two general elections, but the past four years has seen some absolute ugliness from the GOP and I'm not the only one who has distanced myself from the RWNJs, Tea Baggers, etc. I saw one of my favorite senators beat by someone who claims it is God's plan when women get raped, and he won because he made bi-partisan compromise seem like a sin. If there is truly an "evil" it is the hate towards gays, women, and immigrants practically within their party platform. (I guess we shouldn't forget the war on facts or science either, not to mention the poor)


There needs to be happy mixture of individual liberties and fiscal responsibility. I'm voting for Gary Johnson. He's more in line with what I want and what the people want, instead of what the parties want to force us to choose between. Hopefully there'll be enough density to take notice

[admhndry]

I read through this whole thread, because I'm really interested in the US election. Being from Australia, it's a new thing for me to really pay attention to it. My opinion is that you already believe what you believe, and it doesn't matter what the other candidate says.

It doesn't matter what I think so much, because it won't effect me as much as you guys who are actually in the US, but the most important thing is to keep an open mind. All the statistics they state are cherry-picked, and the best you can do is to educate yourself on both sides. There's no point checking any website for an unbiased opinion. It's red vs. blue. You're already on a team, and just like sport, you want that team to win.

Arguing about what's right is pitting your own values that you've worked your whole life to craft against someone who is doing just the same. As a person outside the US, I don't know a single person who is supporting the Republican party in the upcoming election. Maybe it's an ignorant view because we don't live there, but best of luck to you guys.

Vote on November 6th, but do it confidently, and know all about what you're standing for. Everyone has to vote in Australia, and it's important.

Cheers!

[BraveUlysses]

Still...

Look, I know Obama will carry Oregon by a comfortable margin. That's why I voted for Gary Johnson. He's the candidate I prefer, and my vote is 1 more to add to his national tally. The more votes 3rd party candidates get, the more seriously they will be taken. It may be naive but I like to think that I'm doing my part, however small, to help that.

Right there with ya, GJ12!

[gwb72tii]

you have a valid point

[CorvallisBMW]

Still...

Look, I know Obama will carry Oregon by a comfortable margin. That's why I voted for Gary Johnson. He's the candidate I prefer, and my vote is 1 more to add to his national tally. The more votes 3rd party candidates get, the more seriously they will be taken. It may be naive but I like to think that I'm doing my part, however small, to help that.

[rwh11385]

That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day! Listen to yourself!

If Obama is guaranteed to carry WA why not vote for your preferred candidate? Your vote for Romney will not swing the state for Romney; so therefor if any vote is a true waste, it's a Romney vote. Voting for a 3rd party candidate will simply add to their national showing, and the more votes they get the more people will start paying attention.

You've got the whole thing totally back-asswards.

I mean, there's some other strong competition from his other posts, particularly in the global warming thread.

[gwb72tii]

well, it's not that i haven't voted for third party candidates before. voted for the handgrenade with a bad haircut, perot.
also, mickey mouse usually gets a vote somewhere on almost every ballot i've submitted.
i like romney.

[CorvallisBMW]

because it is a wasted vote.
there are two candidates that have a valid chance of winning. one is obama (which i believe you know how i fell about him) and the other is romney.
voting for a third party will not accomplish anything except to re-elect obama.
besides, my vote is wasted in WA state as it will carry obama by 10%, thanks to Seattle.

and if romney turns out to be bush budget wise, you'll hear me and others like sleeve criticize him too, like we did with bush

That's the dumbest thing I've heard all day! Listen to yourself!

If Obama is guaranteed to carry WA why not vote for your preferred candidate? Your vote for Romney will not swing the state for Romney; so therefor if any vote is a true waste, it's a Romney vote. Voting for a 3rd party candidate will simply add to their national showing, and the more votes they get the more people will start paying attention.

You've got the whole thing totally back-asswards.

[BraveUlysses]

The real gem in that post was this tidbit of revisionist history:

and if romney turns out to be bush budget wise, you'll hear me and others like sleeve criticize him too, like we did with bush