Government Dependence

[ck_taft325is]

rwh is srsbizness.

[ethrtyiS]

you must mean "my momma always told me..."

how does that make me the only person to have lived there when it was directed to you...?

you've done some homework. good for you.
it's a shame you didn't do it in school where it counted.

[rwh11385]

lol. either you hadn't read anything i've written or you gathered what you wanted to read and wrote about that.

and bingo. this is exactly right. i'm pretty sure i mentioned that somewhere in the beginning. you sound like a kid. nowhere did i mention my mommy saying this or that a bunch of times nor did i mention me being the only person who lived across the pond. obviously the education system has failed you. haha.

Actually, this is what you said:

there are other things that factored in sure, but most of my older relatives tell me all the time how their economy went to hell mainly due to government reliance. they even tell me that the united states is following in the same path and that 300 years of prosper and hard work are going down the drain. i believe i still have that facebook message somewhere around.

"my momma always said" was a reference to Forest Gump. Must have been before your time.

Assumption that you would be the only possible person to have lived in the UK and able to comment on the nation, period.

you've never lived in england. unless you have lived there or have seen how things work, you wouldn't understand.

Class of '10 calling people kids

[ethrtyiS]

LOL - coming from the person who bases their world view on the opinions of his parents.

Maybe you should realize I am saying that failing education brings down the economy and influences the need for social programs. Poor human capital begets a handicapped economy, and also poor humans. Saying that social programs cause people to need social programs is like saying a sprinkler system causes the fires they help control.

I didn't know you actually ever spent any effort arguing? It just seems you repeated "my momma always said" a bunch of times. Oh, and claiming you were the only person to have ever lived across the pond.

lol. either you hadn't read anything i've written or you gathered what you wanted to read and wrote about that.

and bingo. this is exactly right. i'm pretty sure i mentioned that somewhere in the beginning. you sound like a kid. nowhere did i mention my mommy saying this or that a bunch of times nor did i mention me being the only person who lived across the pond. obviously the education system has failed you. haha.

[rwh11385]

i didn't base my argument solely on family's views and opinions and i sure as hell am not blaming government programs like welfare as the cause of the failing education system...
you should probably stop assuming now.
continue to blindly trust what you will. i could care less.

i feel it to be no longer worth my time nor my effort to arguing with you any longer. what's the old saying...? "don't count your chickens before they hatch".

LOL - coming from the person who bases their world view on the opinions of his parents.

Maybe you should realize I am saying that failing education brings down the economy and influences the need for social programs. Poor human capital begets a handicapped economy, and also poor humans. Saying that social programs cause people to need social programs is like saying a sprinkler system causes the fires they help control.

I didn't know you actually ever spent any effort arguing? It just seems you repeated "my momma always said" a bunch of times. Oh, and claiming you were the only person to have ever lived across the pond.

[ethrtyiS]

i didn't base my argument solely on family's views and opinions and i sure as hell am not blaming government programs like welfare as the cause of the failing education system...
you should probably stop assuming now.
continue to blindly trust what you will. i could care less.

i feel it to be no longer worth my time nor my effort to arguing with you any longer. what's the old saying...? "don't count your chickens before they hatch".

[rwh11385]

you are assuming now.
i have conversations via facebook since it's free rather than make calls. and there has been plenty of chats regarding the economy here and there. they have lived through many years and have seen how things have changed. i know for a fact that it contributed to the bankrupcy of the uk because it's been the exact same scenario in each country who've followed the same footsteps. whether i listen to old family advice or not, it's written into history for anyone to see that the same policies have failed before.

the majority of people that live here need to look at the big picture, not just what looks good for right here and now. learn from the mistakes of the past and avoid them. plain and simple. if you don't know how, then please go do some research. open up history books, not one, but multiple, and see how things are now. then tell me how all of these new government programs and policies aren't restricting our freedom and how they aren't starting to hurt our economy.

I'm not assuming about you using a really pathetic excuse of a logical fallacy. You are not getting the basic concept that your parents' opinions mean nothing as far as proof. A reasonable person would provide data or research beyond their family's opinion, or do more than state baseless claims as facts. You really ought to learn what logic is all about, because you have none. Circular reasoning is not a fact. You are the last person to tell anyone to look at the big picture, your support for your view is the adoption of the opinion of your parents. And you should be the last person to tell anyone to do research or open books for the same reason.

Maybe stop being a chav, and reason like an intelligent or educated person.

Maybe explain why the existence of government programs forces people to give up all passions and goals in life. That'd be a place to start. There should be a hand up instead of a handout, which is why you see many periods of economic growth be paired with job training programs. People don't just magically become skilled and hired. And our educational system is troublesome in many areas and for several reasons. Maybe you should see the big picture and stop saying that the existence of government programs does not force people to give up all else and live off of them.

More importantly, to my former post, think to yourself what the US would be like if it didn't invest in agricultural education, development, and research & technology. We'd have far more people farming on smaller plots of land and less ability for them to study other subjects. What if we didn't support aviation, or space programs, or medical research to cure diseases. What if we didn't invest and invent the internet? California would be a certainly different place without Silicon Valley. Heck, we probably wouldn't be able to be on a forum with our own computers if the US didn't pursue technology and innovation. There'd wouldn't be the jobs that these things created and lower standards of living that innovation has enabled. If we didn't educated and train our population in the things required to develop the country, we'd be behind where we are today.

If you like history so much, consider all of the major "ages" in the history of man and how something as basic as their mastering of materials could lead to the rise or fall of civilizations and victory over less technically skilled groups. Better, faster, stronger combat tools may have been crucial through a lot of human development, but now the materials, technology, and knowledge for manufacturing and efficiency of our systems is important to remaining competitive - and these things take good STEM educations. The loss of technical edge over the last 140 years has had significant impact on the UK.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freee...nd-development


It's hard to keep up with other countries when education isn't fostering the population's abilities and R&D spending is plummeting. But keep blaming the governmental welfare programs as the cause instead of the result.

[ethrtyiS]

Typical useless bullshit personal attacks have started. Happens all the time when logic and history are cited.

Learn from history, or you are bound to repeat....England, Spain, France holyshit Greece. These are countries that hid behind "holistic" solutions and bailouts. How are things looking there these days?

Do any of you honestly think we can do the same things yet have a different outcome? Honestly now. Don't spout some rhetorical bullshit or start attacking others and question if they've lived somewhere or not. Make a well thought out, reasonable argument about how we can do the same thing as they have yet have a different outcome.

exactly right.

don't bother e30

it is true that non-native americans know more about our history and those that live/lived in europe are the best defenders, generally, of capitalism and our constitution.

yeah, it's truly a shame people who live here don't understand.

The point was your entire series of posts were using Appeal to Authority from your family... although it's doubtful that they are experts since you said their opinion was via Facebook not published work even. Your family's opinion doesn't really mean anything besides that's their perspective and their opinion doesn't have to be rooted in facts or reality. People have believed a lot of things about groups or society - but that doesn't mean they were true. Having your attack be the assumption that no one else could have possible lived in England too so therefore you are the expert on the decline of the UK from its grace is laughable.

That, and a baseless conclusion that 300 years is down the drain because... ? Why exactly?

you are assuming now.
i have conversations via facebook since it's free rather than make calls. and there has been plenty of chats regarding the economy here and there. they have lived through many years and have seen how things have changed. i know for a fact that it contributed to the bankrupcy of the uk because it's been the exact same scenario in each country who've followed the same footsteps. whether i listen to old family advice or not, it's written into history for anyone to see that the same policies have failed before.

the majority of people that live here need to look at the big picture, not just what looks good for right here and now. learn from the mistakes of the past and avoid them. plain and simple. if you don't know how, then please go do some research. open up history books, not one, but multiple, and see how things are now. then tell me how all of these new government programs and policies aren't restricting our freedom and how they aren't starting to hurt our economy.

[rwh11385]

sure. if that's what you comprehended from it...

The point was your entire series of posts were using Appeal to Authority from your family... although it's doubtful that they are experts since you said their opinion was via Facebook not published work even. Your family's opinion doesn't really mean anything besides that's their perspective and their opinion doesn't have to be rooted in facts or reality. People have believed a lot of things about groups or society - but that doesn't mean they were true. Having your attack be the assumption that no one else could have possible lived in England too so therefore you are the expert on the decline of the UK from its grace is laughable.

That, and a baseless conclusion that 300 years is down the drain because... ? Why exactly?

[e30e]

Anyone mention the amount of corporate welfare we have in this country.... You think the poor are lazy you should what being rich entitles you too.... Corporate lobbying for the mega companies to leach the government.

[gwb72tii]

sure. if that's what you comprehended from it...

don't bother e30

it is true that non-native americans know more about our history and those that live/lived in europe are the best defenders, generally, of capitalism and our constitution.

[Cephas]

Typical useless bullshit personal attacks have started. Happens all the time when logic and history are cited.

Learn from history, or you are bound to repeat....England, Spain, France holyshit Greece. These are countries that hid behind "holistic" solutions and bailouts. How are things looking there these days?

Do any of you honestly think we can do the same things yet have a different outcome? Honestly now. Don't spout some rhetorical bullshit or start attacking others and question if they've lived somewhere or not. Make a well thought out, reasonable argument about how we can do the same thing as they have yet have a different outcome.

[z31maniac]

If I use "therefore" in my retort, I gain automatic credibility.

[ethrtyiS]

So your family told you that the US is going down the drain because I don't care why they said via Facebook??!?

Yeah, well, my family said that your family were do-do heads.

sure. if that's what you comprehended from it...

[rwh11385]

cool.

so it makes sense why no one cares about the 300 years it took to get america up and
running as a leading democracy. all that hard work for nothing. we've seen it in europe. you will see it here.

So your family told you that the US is going down the drain because I don't care why they said via Facebook??!?

Yeah, well, my family said that your family were do-do heads.