Obamacareless begins...

[BraveUlysses]

I will leave this right here

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/florid...obamacare.html

This guy is a grade A idiot.

[Q5Quint]

So the ethical questions here are:

• Should everyone pay to take care of everyones health (an across the board tax)?
• Should your employer pay to take care of their employees health, and leave out those without jobs or who get laid off.
• Should you pay to take care of your own health, and leave out everyone else, and if you cant pay you simply don't get help.
• Should you not pay to take care of anyone else's health, and expect nobody to pay for yours if you fall on hard times?
• Should a hospital or doctor be expected to help you if you cannot pay?

Frankly I think the first option is the only option and I am not sure if obamer care actually addresses that, though it is a step in that direction. If we don't take care of our own family then what the hell are we doing?

[Turf1600]

Any hospitals that are closing as a result of this have only themselves to blame. Since all of this passed I have been a part of two organizations that have prepared strategies that will negate any cuts in reimbursement from Medicare and Medicaid.

Places that cut staff to reduce costs WILL FAIL. Medicare is going to have a reimbursement schedule that is based on patient satisfaction. Cutting staff will almost certainly result in lower satisfaction rates. It's a slippery slope for the underprepared and shortsighted.

[rwh11385]

Some companies are talk

I will leave this right here

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/florid...obamacare.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/11/21/papa-johns-schnatter-says-he-will-honor-obamacare-and-give-health-insurance-to-all-employees/2/

In a related development, John Metz, the owner/operator of 40 Denny’s restaurants in Florida, has now backed off his announced plans to add a five percent ‘Obamacare’ surcharge to his customer’s tab at the Metz owned restaurants.

It seems that Mr. Metz’s plan resulted in a considerable amount of flak—not only from Denny’s customers throughout Florida who have chosen to avoid eating at Denny’s locations as an expression of their anger, but from Denny’s corporate CEO, John Miller, who expressed his “disappointment” with Mr. Metz’s controversial statements.

Similarly, Papa John is backing off his previous statements and idle threats. [within the same article link]

In an op-ed written by Papa John’s CEO John Schnatter and published in The Huffington Post on Tuesday, Mr. Schnatter suggests that his intentions regarding the implementation of Obamacare for Papa John’s employees have been misunderstood and that he plans to provide health care benefits to all of his corporate employees along with all employees working in his company owned stores.

According to Mr. Schnatter, his plans with respect to his employees—and the requirement to provide them with a health care benefit—were taken out of context based on remarks he made when speaking to an entrepreneur class at a Florida college.

Whether Mr. Schnatter has been misunderstood or has—in the past few days—come to realize that providing health care to his workers is the best thing both for his employees and his business, this is an important development for the many workers who will be positively impacted by John Schnatter’s announcement.

[naplesE30]

My mother in law had a brain anurism(spelling terrible) She was in the states and was taken to a hospital in windsor, because we were willing to pay out of pocket she jumped all the canadians waiting ahead of her. The care was excellent as was the surgeon, which is why she went their. However, fair it was not. A us citizen pulled rank because we had $$$ over native canadians who pay for the same service through taxes. If I were in line waiting and knew about it I would go apeshit.

raise your hand if you've actually had personal experience with the Canadian healthcare system (and not from some stupid youtube video)

*raises hand*

Have any of you guys ever been to an "emergency room" in the USA? talk about horrible.

[ficklerx]

To further offset the costs, Metz, who oversees roughly 1,200 employees as president and CEO of RREMC Restaurants, LLC, said he also will slash most of the staff's time to fewer than 30 hours per week. That change will be announced to employees next month, he said.

That is the most important point of sleeve's article. The tax part was just a gimmick.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/florid...obamacare.html

[joshh]

How do you know the layoffs are a direct consequence of Obamacare? Correlation =/= Causation

Is it still Bush's fault?

[mar1t1me]

Are there people out there (rhetorical question) who somehow think the ACA would have magically vanished had Romney been elected? They sure act like it. If they'd wanted to guarantee Romney a win, they should have announced the layoffs before the election, not after. And the GOP, even as sure as they seemed that R was going to be the Prez apparently had absolutely nothing ready to replace it with. They bitched and they bitch still, but where is their better, cheaper, smarter plan? <crickets> "Oh, sorry.....we were too busy obsessing over rape, abortion and gay marriage and denying Obama a second term at all costs to do any actual productive work." :loco:

As for moving everyone to part time, Walmart pioneered this method of driving more employees onto the government tit many years ago. Their low prices are heavily taxpayer subsidized, yet the owners are worth billions: a case study for how to get rich while fucking over the largest number of people possible. When I worked as a touring musician I worked about 280 shows a year....many fairs in small towns.....and everywhere there was a Walmart, there was a dead Downtown. The one that had small, locally owned businesses now forsaken for the sprawl just outside city limits full of low paying chain store jobs. Then, when Walmart outgrew its store, rather than rebuild on the same land, they leave a barren hulk and several foundering "satellite" businesses in their wake as they move further out.

These large employers are the ones crying about the ACA. The little stores that paid enough for employees to have private health insurance because the market bore their higher prices in the absence of "low price at all costs" venues like Walmart, and also had small enough numbers as to be exempt from the ACA are largely gone forever.

[Wiglaf]

i agree this should have nothing to do with employers. canada is doing it right.

[Turf1600]

i agree this should have nothing to do with employers. canada is doing it right.

Don't forget that the massive demand for medical technology here in the US drives down the cost for bordering canada.

[Wiglaf]

Don't forget that the massive demand for medical technology here in the US drives down the cost for bordering canada.

Our costs for that shit are so inflated that we might as well not have it. And not even needed for 99% of what people need, it's dealing with the flu and broken bones, checkups, etc. And I'm not particularly advocating that the socialist approach should cover million dollar surgeries because you can't put the twinkies and cigs down.
My dad recently had work done, a relatively minor thing with a skin graft. He was there for 1 day. Total surgery + direct doctor interaction added up to maybe 4 hours. It was over $10k for the bill. There is no justifying that!!
Ten thousand dollars for 4 hours of work. And the average person makes what, $25k/year?

Prescription drugs, we have a combination of the FDA and patents to put them on lockdown and keep competition from "generics" to a minimum. It's interfered to the extent that we are NOT leading the forefront on this. And even the generics aren't THAT cheap, just at least something remotely resembling a reality check to these guys.

This is a serious problem and I will back ANY serious attempt to brave the political nightmare to try and fix it. Obamacare got blasted to bits, expect more tries. The only solution that makes sense is what we see in Canada, Sweden, ETC. We have to get there.

[DaveNorCal]

Keeping health care tied to employment keeps people tied to their jobs, just how business likes it.

[mrsleeve]

^

No it does not, you can quit and go to another job, anytime you like................ Your H/C benefits package my not be the same but if your a solid employee they will be similar, because your new employer will have to offer that to get people to come to work for him. Are you trying to say it disincentives entrepreneurship because you would not have H/C any longer paid by someone else????

My dad recently had work done, a relatively minor thing with a skin graft. He was there for 1 day. Total surgery + direct doctor interaction added up to maybe 4 hours. It was over $10k for the bill. There is no justifying that!!
Ten thousand dollars for 4 hours of work. And the average person makes what, $25k/year?

Ummm try doubling that. Median US income for all is just shy of 50k, and just shy 55k if your Caucasian

Prescription drugs, we have a combination of the FDA and patents to put them on lockdown and keep competition from "generics" to a minimum. It's interfered to the extent that we are NOT leading the forefront on this. And even the generics aren't THAT cheap, just at least something remotely resembling a reality check to these guys.

It costs a lot of money to develop a new pharmaceutic, and many things dont work in the process. I read something a long while back in the WSJ (IIRC) that it was on the order of 40 failures to 1 successful pharma product, Not to mention the fact that XXXX phama company has invested $$$$$$$$$$ dollars into a product, why should they not be able to patent it and hold the rights to it for XX years, would it be fair that YYYY, GGGG, and MMMM phama companies make the same thing XXX has developed and sell it for less since they dont have to make the development costs back??? Just like if you came with a battery that would make gas cars obsolete, would it be fair that as soon as you put it on the market every one from the R/C industry to the Auto and Big electronics industry would be reverse engineering it and useing your idea. Same thing applies here

Like it or not with out the way our system works the developmet of most all things medical would be much much slower and still be stuck at about 1980 levels.

This is a serious problem and I will back ANY serious attempt to brave the political nightmare to try and fix it. Obamacare got blasted to bits, expect more tries. The only solution that makes sense is what we see in Canada, Sweden, ETC. We have to get there.

this has been answered for you already

Don't forget that the massive demand for medical technology here in the US drives down the cost for bordering canada.

We are paying for the advancement, with out it the rest of the world would not have the level of technology and advancement for what you perceive as cheaper. If we are not paying for the advancement and go to a status quo for all as far as general care is concerned, then who will be paying to develop all these new things?? Sure is not going to be someone else, is it.

[Thizzelle]

[tjts1]

You only posted the same video in 4 threads so far. Maybe if you go for 5 somebody will give a fuck about what you have to say.