Here's the problem though: Piss tests can register positive for months after your last use if you're a heavy user. So as an employer, how would I know if you were currently intoxicated or had smoked last Saturday? There's no good way to test currently. With alcohol it's easy to judge imparement and it only shows up in urine screens for about 48 hours after use. It's a tough situation because marijuana shows up the same in tests whether you're high as a kite while pissing, or you smoked a joint last month. There's no differentiation with current testing methods. So employers will want to err on the side of caution. I'm not saying I like it, but that's how it is.
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This argument has been used forever, and frankly is somewhat of a non-point. This is where simple common sense needs to kick in. Lets face the fact that millions of american's show up to work drunk or high. Out of them only a tiny percentage ever get fired over it. This is where the common sense comes in. Those that do get caught do so generally because of work performance, not due to a smell, red eyes, ect.. Being that pot metabolizes differently it needs to be treated as such. And being that it would be legal it simply comes down to work performance. If your a shit worker you deserve to be fired whether you smoke pot or not.Comment
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That's not necessarily true. Many employers require mandatory drug tests for anyone involved in an accident at work, so you could be required to take a pee test because an idiot on a forklift hit you.Comment
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Brave, that's true to a point. It's used mainly by insurance companies and the employer to get out of making payments. Yes there are cases where it's the fault of the worker, and many more where it's the fault of the employer for not providing safe enough work environments. In your fork lift example, this is where common sense again needs to kick in. Why should the person injured due to no fault of their own be punished for getting hurt. It's like saying someone hit by a car should be held responsible. It comes down to companies putting the money ahead of employees, and then giving them a legal loophole to do it.Comment
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Fyi if you have been drinking and you are ass ended in your car through no fault of your own........ your at fault for the wreck as far as the law is concerned because your dui, (in most states any way) why should the work place be differant.
Compoany policy says no pot or other drugs to retain employment and you bust a piss test fuck you then sound like a personal responsibility issue
I bust a DOT and I will nevr work again, or be able to switch to another field of work I would like to be in. I piss at least 5 times a year for damm near every clinet I work for, plus my employer and various randoms. Simple choice work and make something of my self or get high and get no where ........... seems simple enoughLast edited by mrsleeve; 02-15-2013, 04:53 PM.The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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Actually you are only at fault for the dui, not the accident. This has been proven in practice and in law. If I rear end someone I'm at fault for not paying attention, should I be let off scott free just cause the guy I hit was drunk at the time? What if he was sleeping it off with the car parked and not running, still his fault? Where's your personal responsibility there?Fyi if you have been drinking and you are ass ended in your car through no fault of your own........ your at fault for the wreck as far as the law is concerned because your dui, (in most states any way) why should the work place be differant.
Just as you pointed out with smokers becoming second class citizens. Your now advocating doing the exact same thing to those that make the personal choice to use marijuana. Again, either wrong, or hypocritical.
What about those on doctor prescribed medication that gets you high? Should they be held at fault for being hurt by forces out of their control? They didn't choose the medication, should they put their health at risk out of fear?
Your simply giving an excuse companies use to screw people over. Your allowing companies, that signed legal documents, out of their responsibility by giving them a loophole. Thank's for screwing over your fellow american sleeve, cause that's what your doing.Comment
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you folks really ought to educate yourselves before commenting on testing for weed impairment.
very inexpensive saliva tests can detect the actual drug, not metabolites, up to 2 hours after ingestion. they are not reliable, however.
blood tests can reliably detect the drug up to 12 hours after ingestion. again, the actual drug, not metabolites. this would be the methodolgy best used in a post-accident scenario. any legalization scheme should include language that allows this type of testing. one of the more than 800 new laws for 2013 in california removes the option for urine rather than blood or breath testing in DUI arrests.Comment
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Although this being true, and me being in agreement with it. There also has to be a burden of proof to show that the drug was still in effect, not simply in the system. Say you smoked up before bed, by the morning the affects are gone, but the thc still shows up in the test. This leaves a certain grey area that could be used unjustly.blood tests can reliably detect the drug up to 12 hours after ingestion. again, the actual drug, not metabolites. this would be the methodolgy best used in a post-accident scenario. any legalization scheme should include language that allows this type of testing. one of the more than 800 new laws for 2013 in california removes the option for urine rather than blood or breath testing in DUI arrests.Comment
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FYI if you want to smoke pot legal or other wise thats your prerogative.
Just be willing to accept the consequences of doing so like a man. Thats the problem no one is willing to take responsibility for their actions, in this era of snow flake generationsThe American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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No one is arguing personal responsibility. But your wanting a person to be held accountable for someone else's actions simply because they decide to smoke pot. It's placing a prejudice on people for making a choice to use a legal substance. It's saying "He smokes pot, so it's his fault automatically". Prejudice is prejudice not matter how you slice it.Just be willing to accept the consequences of doing so like a man. Thats the problem no one is willing to take responsibility for their actions, in this era of snow flake generations
Company policy states no drugs (including alcohol, which is a drug) during your time at work. They cannot tell you or hold against you your choice to use a legal substance outside of work tho. In this discussion pot. If you decide to smoke up during company time, then yeah, you should be fired. Same as drinking on the job. But to state they should be allowed to fire you simply for having it in your system, with out proving you were high at work is ridiculous. There again, your allowing a prejudice to set a legal statute.Compoany policy says no pot or other drugs to retain employment and you bust a piss test fuck you then sound like a personal responsibility issueComment
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No I am saying if you break your companies policy, by using a mind altering substance and test positive for such, you should not whine about the consequences of it. Many of us are not cubicle furniture and our lives in are in the hands of those we work with and around all day every day many times under trying conditionsThe American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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I smoke everyday, I bet I'm half your age and twice as successful. Keep your dumb fuck, over-opinionated, half-wit comments under your foil hat. Want to talk about "mind altering substances" look at half the prescription drugs out there. Are employers going to start weeding through medical records and fire everyone with a legitimate condition? Hydrocodone is the number one prescribed drug in America, you can get it for stubbing your fucking toe and it can make you dumb as a doorknob. These pathetic ramblings are a joke. They can test for marijuana in more ways than you can count, the concentration and the mere fact of it's obvious (physical) side effects. California state law says you have to wait 6 hours after smoking to operate machinery or a motor vehicle, there goes the "smoke at night, work in the morning" argument.
I'm completely against being intoxicated in the work place, but give me a break lol. Quit associating marijuana with hindering ones work ethic, performance, abilities, and overall character. It's degrading and undeserved.Last edited by Rsully70sev; 02-17-2013, 12:42 AM.Comment
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It makes you more of what you already are. You're a lazy ass at work, well you have hell to pay already. You work hard to start off with and well all of a sudden its a fucking gift. Losers will be losers and winners will be winners despite what they ingest or what drugs they take.
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1) My industry is ALL HEAVY EQUIPMENT, and dangerous in general.....I play with high intensity Radiograpic source material in adverse conditions that can and will kill you if you fuck up bad just one time. Guys that are on scrips for real conditions like recent surgery and what not are put in places where they can be useful but not endanger others.....
2) 6 hours wait time. you ever work in construction??? Most of my jobs when they are in full swing your lucky to get 6 hours off site to eat and sleep 6 days a week. Right now I am 14 on 10 off with a 50 min drive from the room to the job each way.
3) I know lots of pot head, some are great workers MOST ARE NOT they are lazy POS's that do just enough to coast by. You are industrious and a pot head good for you, your in the minority in my experience then
4) I have no issues with what you do on your own time, thats your business, but until I have a way to tell if I have a hand thats even a little bit high while at work with nearly instantaneous and reliable results FUCK YOU. My industries are full of addicts no doubt, but most are getting to where they cant work anymore thanks to Job standards set forth by those that are paying to build the job. Be a pot head and try working for the likes XOM, XTO, (Exxon), RDSA (Shell), COP (conocophillips), CVX (chevron), Williams/Transco, Columbia, Chesapeake, Duke, Dominion, SunCo, Enterprise Transmission/Products and the list goes on and on. These are just a few of our current clients you have ever busted a test NO WORK PERIOD for you on any of their jobs. You want to work for BNSF. and some of the other Rail Roads they are wanting a Follicle test......
NO ONE WANTS THE LIABILITY OF having a person that is a habitual user of a highly mind altering substances on their pay roll when Millions or billions dollars and peoples lives including the public are on the line. That is their prerogative and protecting their business and their own ass...
BTW 32, and when you add all my benefits, incentives, and incidentals in my pay package, I do just fine, better than most people my age, but I'll venture to guess I prolly pay more in Taxes than you make in year. How did I get there, HARD WORK AND SACRIFICES, not sitting around getting high and fucking off...............
Shut your fucking holeLast edited by mrsleeve; 02-17-2013, 12:20 PM.The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de TocquevilleOriginally posted by Fusion
The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-Comment
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I like you sleeve, but you make your story everyone's business here. Your hard work and sacrifices is not what everyone has to do to make money.
With that said your industry also sounds like it's potentially just as full of alcoholics. So should you just start spouting of fuck you's to them if they come to work sober? Get some rest.Comment
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