Some new hope for drug reforms

[decay]

...highly mind altering substances...

you think that's what marijuana is? that's cute.

[mrsleeve]

I like you sleeve, but you make your story everyone's business here. Your hard work and sacrifices is not what everyone has to do to make money.

With that said your industry also sounds like it's potentially just as full of alcoholics. So should you just start spouting of fuck you's to them if they come to work sober? Get some rest.

I use my own experiences to make a point. What better place to make an argument form?? Your right what works for me will not and does not work for everyone, I see guys try to make this work every week and cant stomach it be it the hours, the travel, or the long stints from home worried about the 'Ol Lady" fucking around on them, or what ever other reason they can come up with, and go running home .

Yes we have plenty of alcoholics in these industries, and I have nearly less tolerance for people showing up drunk as I do them high. Does it happen sure from time to time and it pisses me off just the same. But like I keep saying until we have a decently reliable, reasonably accurate instantaneous, way to test people in the field, companies are well with the bounds of what is reasonable to keep those that bust their piss tests off their pay roll.......

So I get called out by our resident pot dealer and I should not defend my self????

[Dozyproductions]

heh, You got a point but so does he. Unless what he was responding to was actually just pertaining to your situation.

[cale]

Sleeve, you're in an entirely different industry with entirely different circumstances. It's similar to the oil industry of Alberta, a justifiable zero tolerance. When you have people in camp, or on any sort of job site where you're spending long hours at work (12-16), drinking or smoking after work directly affects the next shift, so you need to implement a zero tolerance dry environment. That doesn't mean the drug or bottle is bad, it means that people need to be able to say no to it and when you have an environment full of young people, sadly usually not the brightest and with pockets full of cash you have people who go too far. I think that's what you've experienced, and you're entirely wrong to think that's how it is for people who only have a 40 hour work week.

[mrsleeve]

^

While I am willing to concede that point fully, my entire point that I have been jumped on by puff the magic dragon there, was that your employer is with his bounds to shit can you for using, substances that can an may alter you abilty to do your job, outside of legitimate need for a short term scrip. Pot for you anxiety or depression is in my mind not legit. Go to doc for a hang nail to get your scrip for some purple hazy nipple fuck bud is just as bull shit and hillbilly heroin for a stubed or broken toe. Why can't people just man up and deal with their issues and minor pain aches and pains rather than alter their brain and blame all their problems on their issues??

Your totally right when you sit in a cubical form 9 to 5 you might be able to get away with it. that's wh previously I mentioned not everyone is cubicle furniture.


That. Fuck camp work that shit sucks ass........................ :)

[Dozyproductions]

Pot will not alter anything when you're sober... is that a point still being argued? So it's a fucked up thing, whether its legal or not, when you do get canned for failing a drug test. Because in the end, you should be fired if you suck at working not because you smoke one of god's plants while being a good worker.

Do you know people who have crazy anxiety attacks? They can't function when having one. You rather have them taking zanaxs' all day long? If you're depressed... how do you deal with it when all you can think about is suicide and no one is around to help you? Have you been seriously depressed before? What you forgot to mention is part of the process of manning up for most people is, if they don't smoke, is drinking and bitching. Great...

I was under 2000mg of depacote every day for the last 3 years. If I didn't smoke weed I would of honestly already committed suicide. Now I take 2000mg of an anticonvulsant and it makes me mad as hell. I can't control it some times to the point that I nearly get jailed everytime I show that side effect to the public. Pot helps me stay out of jail... the irony huh?

My medication is more mind altering than pot yet its given to me by a doctor and is generally accepted by society. I don't have seizures when I smoke pot and I can get that shit practically for free. But no, Ill just gladly pay my inflated insurance rate, and stay broke because of it, just to stay within the legal confines. Awesome. Your argument is full of shit.

Edit: Im not going to change any of my original response but I just want to add that I'm not really mad, just tired of the tired ass argument you give... given that I don't live in a work situation like yours... which includes the majority of people. I hate that people like you, who have no idea what they're talking about, have the ability to control and make it harder to deal with MY disease.

[Rsully70sev]

Sorry not everyone is as tough as you. Some people need medical help with mental illness such as anxiety, depression, insomnia, etc. I'd rather smoke a bowl than eat a xanax any day, I might smile a lot and laugh at things that aren't funny, but I'm not a walking zombie.

Sorry my argument doesn't apply to "14 on 10 off" Bob the fucking Builder, a good percentage of the world works off of computers, and are "cubicle furniture" lol. Nice list you've got there; I've smoked more weed with six figure salary CEO's, CFO's and white collar workers than I can think to name. I don't know how Montana runs shit, but we do things a little different in California.


......annnnnnd Washington, Colorado and 16 other states.....

[sumoashe]

Dozy, I not only agree with you, but also support you in your use of pot. As someone else who has found the medical benefit of using it.

I myself suffer from CH (cluster headaches). The common medical nickname for this disease is suicide headaches. As most sufferers commit suicide in order to escape the pain. The medical community considers this the worst pain a human can suffer. Medical science still has no idea as to what causes it, largely because it only occurs in 0.1% of the population.

I'm lucky when it comes to the pain level side compared to some. Yet unlucky on the duration side. To put the pain in perspective, imagine the worst migraine possible, then times it by 100. During a bad episode, I would rather break my own leg. On the duration end of things, most suffer from a 1-3 day episode where as mine are generally 1-2 weeks.

I have been on every pain med available, including morphine drips. When I was a child I had to be placed into a chemical induced coma for 3 days. As the pain meds were doing nothing. Due to the amount of pain meds I already had slight liver damage by the age of 16. If I had to continue using them it was guaranteed I would need a liver transplant.

I don't smoke pot cause it's the 'cool' thing to do, or cause I just wanna get high. I do it cause it helps. It doesn't cure the symptoms, but it allows me to function where nothing else does.

It's ridiculous that I should have to choose between my health and my job. All because a biased law based on absolutely no medical fact is still in place.

And for sleeve. For someone who is so into the founding fathers, think about this. Under current laws both Washington and Jefferson would be in prison, as both grew cannabis.

[mrsleeve]

Look I never have said there was no medicinal benefit to pot, and as far I am concerned if you suffer from legitimate issues that pot help then I am all for you using it. Dozy this sounds like you, and there really should be very specific guide lines and criteria for people like you to be able to get it and use it. I have no issues with legitimate use.

What I have issues with is abuse of said provisions, when you go to the "pot friendly" doc and tell them Oh I am depressed, or I am anxious, or I have a head ache once a week, or some other Minor Bull shit excuse to get your fucking pot card. Its no different than those addicts going into the ER faking or claiming pain to score a scrip or a free dose.

Who the fuck is not depressed once in a while, or gets anxious from time to time???? ITS FUCKING NORMAL, you dont need a pill or something to get past it, you just have to put on your big Boy/Girl pants and suck it up and do what needs to get done.


As far as my libertarian bias, Yes I am fully aware of my confliction when it comes to this topic, as in principal I agree it all should be legal and yet highly controlled and regulated, but from a practical stand point I just dont see it working out.

You fuckers act like I have never tried pot, never was my thing, didnt like it at all. I just drink!

[cale]

[Dozyproductions]

Look I never have said there was no medicinal benefit to pot, and as far I am concerned if you suffer from legitimate issues that pot help then I am all for you using it. Dozy this sounds like you, and there really should be very specific guide lines and criteria for people like you to be able to get it and use it. I have no issues with legitimate use.

What I have issues with is abuse of said provisions, when you go to the "pot friendly" doc and tell them Oh I am depressed, or I am anxious, or I have a head ache once a week, or some other Minor Bull shit excuse to get your fucking pot card. Its no different than those addicts going into the ER faking or claiming pain to score a scrip or a free dose.

Who the fuck is not depressed once in a while, or gets anxious from time to time???? ITS FUCKING NORMAL, you dont need a pill or something to get past it, you just have to put on your big Boy/Girl pants and suck it up and do what needs to get done.


As far as my libertarian bias, Yes I am fully aware of my confliction when it comes to this topic, as in principal I agree it all should be legal and yet highly controlled and regulated, but from a practical stand point I just dont see it working out.

You fuckers act like I have never tried pot, never was my thing, didnt like it at all. I just drink!

Okay man, it just for a second there got personal on my end ;)

I think that people should be able to grow pot without any restrictions or regulations. Just like you would be able to grow tomatoes in your back yard.

It should be regulated in the fact that people under 18 or 21 shouldn't be able to buy from growers or smoke... sure.

For driving; if you're high enough to get pulled over for irresponsible driving then that should be enough to get a DUI if the officer can honestly say you were a danger to others. I know that cops would abuse this your point of on/near the site accurate testing will have to come hand in hand with this some how.... agreed.

Im not denying its an escapists' easy way out but some views of pot culture have to change. The movies and music create this entire image of smoking herb that a lot of people stupidly cling too. AKA, the stoners. Just like sports hooligans and rednecks and crazy ass other people, stoners area product of an idea put out there by hollywood and the likes. Unfortunately idiots will be idiots no matter if they're smoking or not, which is all I can say about that.

50% tax on growing the stuff? Yeah, bull shit. Just like they think they're giving us these huge freedoms for driving, well all that shit comes with a huge price that they're making money off of and have entire industries made around, aka insurance companies.... and all the fees and taxes and etc. I will say that I understand and have not too many problems with how drivign is regulated... with so many millions of people on the rode there has to be something for it.

BUT! I don't want to be penalized for something I think I have a full right to enjoy. Making money off of this is just an illusion of freedom and is just the most PC way of going about it. I'm not willing to compromise any more than what I said. That would be true 'reform'.

[sumoashe]

It simply comes down to the fact that keeping cannabis illegal has done more harm than good to our country, and the world as a whole. No matter from which angle you look at.

Common sense dictates that if something doesn't work, you stop doing it. The common arguments used for keeping this policy in effect simply don't hold water.

You want less crime? Stop funding drug cartels by leaving ordinary citizens with no alternative but to purchase via a black market we created.

You want more money in the economy? Stop spending billions on drug policy that doesn't work. Allow people to open businesses based around cannabis. Whether that be for the sale of cannabis to those who wish to use it. Or the millions of industries based around industrial hemp.

You want a better environment? Cannabis can replace deforestation. A single acre of cannabis produces 6 times the usable material that a acre of trees does. And can be regrown in 6 months, not 60 years. Cannabis also uptakes carbon dioxide at a much greater rate than trees. It's actually one of the best plants in the world at doing this. Which means cleaner air for all.

You want better health? Cannabis produces some of the best dietary sources available. It's actually a better source of essential dietary needs than most protein based sources. Beyond the medical benefits. Cannabis has been shown to not only prevent, but also kill several forms of cancer. Especially breast cancer. But because of policy science is not allowed to fully study it. We could of already found a cure for some cancers had this policy not been put into effect.

It comes down to common sense and facts. Things that seem to be lacking in those that oppose this. There will always be those that take advantage of legalization. But the same holds true for alcohol or any other substance.

[cale]

You want less crime? Stop funding drug cartels by leaving ordinary citizens with no alternative but to purchase via a black market we created.

Other than those who use it for legitimate medicinal purposes, there is an alternative, not using. As for those who do genuinely need it, you should take it upon yourself to ensure or at least attempt to get a product which isn't feeding a war. I'm lucky that where I live I can easily get either legitimate medicinal pot, or if I chose legitimately peaceful pot. I'm sure it's doable down there too, it's just going to require a little more effort.

I fully agree it should be legal and accessible, however currently it's not. Because of this, it's still the responsibility of those in support of it to accept that whether or not it should be legal that the purchase of it has a detrimental impact on others lives. Condemning an authority who restricts it and claiming them to be the cause of a war, all the while consuming the very product illegally full well knowing its impact makes you just as accountable for the bloodshed IMO.

[BraveUlysses]

Cartels are not the biggest producers of pot in the US. Even if they were completely out of the pot business they would simply put more production into meth (over 1/3 of US meth is made in Mexico now) and cocaine.

[cale]

They're still murdering thousands over a product many call "harmless". You need to know where you get it from, and if you're buying from a friend of a friend chances are, you're not nearly as informed as you think you are.