First NY and now CO

[Ratbastage]

The creation of 2 classes of citizen is off to a rousing start.

Opinions? I'm curious.

Go read Colorado's new bills on magazine limits, background checks and so on.

Then read NY's SAFE act.

Then explain to me exactly how these make thing safer and explain to me how these do not create a second class of citizen with more rights than the rest of us.

[mar1t1me]

The creation of 2 classes of citizen is off to a rousing start.

Opinions? I'm curious.

Go read Colorado's new bills on magazine limits, background checks and so on.

Then read NY's SAFE act.

Then explain to me exactly how these make thing safer and explain to me how these do not create a second class of citizen with more rights than the rest of us.

Since you posited the two classes idea, it's up to you to present the details. In case you haven't already noticed, we already have a number of classes in our society: the rich financial types who are above accountability, the wealthy politicians who aid and abet them, and the rest of the struggling, squirming masses motivated by fear promulgated by the former two classes.

Guns will not help you in this struggle. I don't care how many you have, they will always have more.

The biggest illusion sold these days by the gun merchants and their lobbying arm, the NRA, is the idea that more guns + more ammo can or will make you safer. Regardless of how I personally feel about needless legislation like this, it's a logical fallacy to make such a claim. Possession of guns is directly correlated to the likelihood of being injured or killed by one. Determined criminals will always be able to arm themselves, but that's because they are criminals! And the NRA has, numerous times, sought to thwart laws designed to make it harder (it will never be impossible) for bad guys to get the guns they want. Not requiring the tracking of serial numbers, not requiring accurate inventories, not allowing cooperation between branches of law enforcement...all makes it easier to facilitate the illicit transfer of weapons to criminals without leaving a paper trail.

Don't want your house robbed? Buy a dog that barks at strangers. Want to be safe while away from your home? Dream on. Just as when in your home, if someone really wants you dead, that is what you will be in short order, even if you are absolutely surrounded by your guns and are proficient in their use.

[Ratbastage]

Since you posited the two classes idea, it's up to you to present the details. In case you haven't already noticed, we already have a number of classes in our society: the rich financial types who are above accountability, the wealthy politicians who aid and abet them, and the rest of the struggling, squirming masses motivated by fear promulgated by the former two classes.

Guns will not help you in this struggle. I don't care how many you have, they will always have more.

The biggest illusion sold these days by the gun merchants and their lobbying arm, the NRA, is the idea that more guns + more ammo can or will make you safer. Regardless of how I personally feel about needless legislation like this, it's a logical fallacy to make such a claim. Possession of guns is directly correlated to the likelihood of being injured or killed by one. Determined criminals will always be able to arm themselves, but that's because they are criminals! And the NRA has, numerous times, sought to thwart laws designed to make it harder (it will never be impossible) for bad guys to get the guns they want. Not requiring the tracking of serial numbers, not requiring accurate inventories, not allowing cooperation between branches of law enforcement...all makes it easier to facilitate the illicit transfer of weapons to criminals without leaving a paper trail.

Don't want your house robbed? Buy a dog that barks at strangers. Want to be safe while away from your home? Dream on. Just as when in your home, if someone really wants you dead, that is what you will be in short order, even if you are absolutely surrounded by your guns and are proficient in their use.

Boy, did you ever miss the point.

[Mr. Tasty]

Since you posited the two classes idea, it's up to you to present the details. In case you haven't already noticed, we already have a number of classes in our society: the rich financial types who are above accountability, the wealthy politicians who aid and abet them, and the rest of the struggling, squirming masses motivated by fear promulgated by the former two classes.

Guns will not help you in this struggle. I don't care how many you have, they will always have more.

The biggest illusion sold these days by the gun merchants and their lobbying arm, the NRA, is the idea that more guns + more ammo can or will make you safer. Regardless of how I personally feel about needless legislation like this, it's a logical fallacy to make such a claim. Possession of guns is directly correlated to the likelihood of being injured or killed by one. Determined criminals will always be able to arm themselves, but that's because they are criminals! And the NRA has, numerous times, sought to thwart laws designed to make it harder (it will never be impossible) for bad guys to get the guns they want. Not requiring the tracking of serial numbers, not requiring accurate inventories, not allowing cooperation between branches of law enforcement...all makes it easier to facilitate the illicit transfer of weapons to criminals without leaving a paper trail.

Don't want your house robbed? Buy a dog that barks at strangers. Want to be safe while away from your home? Dream on. Just as when in your home, if someone really wants you dead, that is what you will be in short order, even if you are absolutely surrounded by your guns and are proficient in their use.

I lived in Anchorage, AK for 7 years, you clearly live in the wrong state.

[ADlBOO]

Don't want your house robbed? Buy a dog that barks at strangers. Want to be safe while away from your home? Dream on. Just as when in your home, if someone really wants you dead, that is what you will be in short order, even if you are absolutely surrounded by your guns and are proficient in their use.

I'll make sure to notify your neighbor about getting a large/vicious looking/ barks at anything that moves dog then. I'm sure you'll love that, you'd prolly also be scared of said dog, then wouldn't waste a second filing a lawsuit if you somehow got bit by this dog.

[gwb72tii]

I lived in Anchorage, AK for 7 years, you clearly live in the wrong state.

bingo
there are all kinds of studies showing the opposite of maritimes view

OP - car to elaborate or post a link to what you read?

[tjts1]

The tin foil hat brigade is in full force today. Good for you boys.

[iamsam]

while this law in CO regarding magazine size irks me, it is ultimately utterly useless and will yield zero change in anything on either side of the law. I will just buy my magazines from Wyoming from now on. I go up there a lot anyway.

What bugs me more is the principle that laws like these can even make it in CO. It is becoming more and more liberal here, and if legislation like this goes through this quickly, what's coming next?

Side note: I have a Glock that has a 17 rd mag from the factory. Can they now no longer sell Glocks like this?

[Vedubin01]

I lived in Anchorage, AK for 7 years, you clearly live in the wrong state.

Then you would remember how infested Anchorage is with the hippy movement.

[Ratbastage]

while this law in CO regarding magazine size irks me, it is ultimately utterly useless and will yield zero change in anything on either side of the law. I will just buy my magazines from Wyoming from now on. I go up there a lot anyway.

What bugs me more is the principle that laws like these can even make it in CO. It is becoming more and more liberal here, and if legislation like this goes through this quickly, what's coming next?

Side note: I have a Glock that has a 17 rd mag from the factory. Can they now no longer sell Glocks like this?

To my understanding the 15 round limit applies to everything sold in Colorado from todays date. Anything prior to is supposedly grandfathered in. However, if precedent from the federal AWB the burden of proving the mag was owned prior to todays date will be on the accused, not the state.

However, bigger picture here, Bloombergs mayors lobby. They poured a ton of money into lobbying for these laws and have pledged to continue to do so where ever they see a chance of passing laws of this nature.

Then you add in the simple fact of defacto registration, unknown fees for background checks within the borders of Colorado and the quiet deliberation, lack of even attempting to listen to both constituents and tax paying businesses it makes one wonder, just at what price are the left leaning democrats willing to pay to further thei agenda?

Not unlike NY's SAFE act these laws in Colorado have created a new class of citizen, felons awaiting the charges.

However, rest assured, there will be amendments added that exclude law enforcement and governement "officials" from complying be that compliance on duty or off.

Again, I state, 2 distinct classes of citizen. Those allowed to owned things deemed "unsafe" and those who are not allowed to.

No offense to any cops on this forum but what gives a cop more rights than the rest of us as a example?

[Ratbastage]

And in case some of you were thinking they'd never think about going door to door.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2020373291_westneat17xml.html

Granted, it stands a snowballs chance in hell of passing. However, it gives you a idea of just what they are willing to try.

The day is coming, the 2A will be stricken, baby steps. Once the 2A is nullified, how long before the 1A bites the dust.

All this is about one thing and one thing only, power and regulation.

[CorvallisBMW]

bingo
there are all kinds of studies showing the opposite of maritimes view

No, there are none actually. Because he's right: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full

[Ratbastage]

No, there are none actually. Because he's right: http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full

That study supports that portion of his argument no doubt.

However, the FBI's crime stats paint a little different picture relative to violent crime and homicide falling slowly over the last 2 decades.

The exception being areas with the most restrictive gun laws such as Chicago and DC.

The bigger picture is a steady erosion of the rights within the Bill of Rights.

I'm actually looking forward to what the CDC comes up with after being refunded.

I doubt many of you remember but Carter commissioned a study on the same issues back in the early 70's. The study more or less came to the conclusion that it was largely ineffective.

http://www.americanclarion.com/16859/2013/02/01/liberal-study-gun-control-laws-do-not-reduce-crime/

[CorvallisBMW]

First, correlation =/= causation. Just because violent crime has been going down doesn't mean it's because of gun ownership (which on a per household basis, has been dropping) Second, lol at quoting stats from 40 years ago as if they represent our current demographics...

[mrsleeve]

First, correlation =/= causation. ..

You say this about everything you dont agree with, yet when this same argument is used against something you do agree with (Say AGW) you cry foul..............


This is one argument that shows more firearms/people with a means to defend them selves form predators is valid correlation=causation argument. Our violent crime is much much lower than that of your favorite Gun stat country of the UK, Like nearly 4 TIMES LOWER.......

This is shown by the current FBI crime stats and the current UK stats, current CDC studies and several other places of reputable information