The people of Turkey are rioting for a secular government

[Q5Quint]

^

remember the average age of the great democracies of history was 200 years before falling into tyranny , we are on borrowed time.

I was going to say 'Have you ever been to china' but then saw the part about democracy ;-)

The greek city-states were pretty tumultuous, and we are replaying that scene but at a much larger 'country/state' scale today.

The tea-party thing is pretty funny- my mom LOVED Sarah Palin mostly because she was a
1. Woman 2. Uber christian
Boom vote.

That was it. No credentials needed. That is literally how most people choose a candidate.

1. He is for lower taxes 2. He hates our black president
BOOM got the vote.

Democracy is sad, and the lies that are being spread around are even sad-er. We will have voter id's in our state this year.... and likely no polls on college campuses. Funny thing is that my nearby campus poll only had like 50 more blue votes than red.... so you hope those 600 red votes that now have to go somewhere else actually still vote for you, because the blues will certainly be pissed at you and likely will in force. Petty tactics instead of actually trying to make anything 'better'.

[rwh11385]

democracy seems to be synonymous with capitalism. ;)

I believe you know that they are not synonymous and I also don't think that is what you are trying to say really. We still vote for people to represent us so not a democracy. The ability to own capital doesn't change that people vote for their representatives (whether directly or for president... through electoral college)... at least, since we let people besides land owners vote in 1856. On election day, Bill Gates's vote counts the same as the person who owns nothing. Therefore democracy is not synonymous with capitalism nor should be confused to seem like each other.


However, the current system is corrupted in two ways:
1) Lobbying influences Congress and other representatives to act in the interests of contributors rather than their constituents. This does not mean there isn't democracy but rather there is a lack of accountability of the elected officials to the people who vote them in. We could rally to vote only for people who didn't act like this, but as Buddy has mentioned - people generally like their officials and think all the other ones are the problem.

2) PACs and Party Leadership have a large role role in deciding who the feasible candidates we have to choose from. (We can obviously write in candidates, but this would take people to be organized to counter-act the two-party heavyweights) Sadly, even the least bad GOP primary candidate that beat out the GOP-leadership favorites loonies was still pretty lame when it came to the general election. Those in power didn't like the less crazy people and shitcanned them for more RWNJ front runners that they decided on.

This video does a great job describing issue #2:

http://www.ted.com/talks/lawrence_lessig_we_the_people_and_the_republic_we_must_reclaim.html

Now, what can we say about democracy in Lesterland? What we can say, number one, as the Supreme Court said in Citizens United, that people have the ultimate influence over elected officials, because, after all, there is a general election, but only after the Lesters have had their way with the candidates who wish to run in the general election. And number two, obviously, this dependence upon the Lesters is going to produce a subtle, understated, we could say camouflaged, bending to keep the Lesters happy. Okay, so we have a democracy, no doubt, but it's dependent upon the Lesters and dependent upon the people.

The good news is that the Koch brothers weren't magically able to buy elections, as much as they tried, and people still have the power of their vote and can decide for themselves. The same goes for Karl Rove: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...-of-money.html Rove Biggest Super-PAC Loser, Trump Says Waste of Money

Donald Trump posted a message on Twitter saying: “Congrats to @KarlRove on blowing $400 million this cycle. Every race @CrossroadsGPS ran ads in, the Republicans lost. What a waste of money.”

Americans for Prosperity, founded 10 years ago by industrial billionaires David and Charles Koch, didn’t have much of a better night than the Rove groups.

If they could pump money into campaigns to ensure results, then you could say they seems synonymous... but not really at all in reality.


btw, I find this to be good as well:

http://www.policymic.com/articles/24766/karl-rove-takes-on-the-tea-party-to-save-the-gop-from-itself

Karl Rove Takes On the Tea Party to Save the GOP From Itself

The cleavage between Tea Party insurgent candidacies and the national Republican establishment is becoming a huge liability to their overall national strategy.

The Tea Party has become almost as major a headache to Republican leadership as the Democratic Party. And the left realizes it: they're gearing up for major initiatives to fund far-right challengers in the hopes of weakening mainstream GOP candidates. In the best-case scenario for Democrats, Tea Party politicians win the primaries outright and get slaughtered in the general election.

The Tea Baggers have been an absolute embarrassment, but if they divide the GOP and a central third party could grow with a small extreme minority that only carries a few flyover states, that'd be pretty cool. Or if they realize the RWNJ approach is a fail, then good too.

[Dozyproductions]

democracy seems to be synonymous with capitalism. ;)

[rwh11385]

We were never suppose to be.

Representative republic != democracy

Yes, but also include a mention of the constitution in the mix though. No branch can go willy-nilly with power since it is limited by the other two.

Our nation has recently had ironic riots where college students and recent graduates protested the wealthy and evil corporations not paying their fair share while on expensive Apple laptops produced overseas in inhumane conditions that earned the company profits they paid very little tax on. (As silly and trivial as most of that camping out was, some of the response like Romney's shitting on the 47% - some of which were well off but benefited from our twisted tax system - was also pretty unproductive.)

Ultimately, we bitch about stupid things sometimes when we have it pretty good compared to other countries. (Including freedoms we sometimes take for granted)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/06/01/astonishing-numbers-americas-poor-still-live-better-than-most-of-the-rest-of-humanity/

Astonishing Numbers: America's Poor Still Live Better Than Most Of The Rest Of Humanity

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/the-haves-and-the-have-nots/

Notice how the entire line for the United States resides in the top portion of the graph? That’s because the entire country is relatively rich. In fact, America’s bottom ventile is still richer than most of the world: That is, the typical person in the bottom 5 percent of the American income distribution is still richer than 68 percent of the world’s inhabitants.

Of course the system could be improved. I readily know that Buddy and others are sick of the two party strangle-hold they have on the country and the lack of a good feasible middle option and witnessing the stupidity of Congress inability to lead or act. More people could have civil liberties such as the right to marry who they love and reducing unnecessary costs of war on drugs and imprisoning people for a victim-less crime We could have a more intelligent tax system and increase the citizens' voices instead of being overpowered by lobbying. Heck, we could eliminate stupid blue laws that force religious principles on states who might not appreciate these limitations. Maybe seeing some of this as objectionable will help understand similar stuff here is not acceptable either, such as:

Parliament members and a ex-minister of the AKP shunned LGBT problems in the country and explicitly called LGBT people sick, claiming homosexuality as a curable disease.

But let's not confuse our petty crap with real problems they're dealing with. I hope they get a fair outcome and resolve this without too much pain and difficulty but I am unsure if that is realistic sadly.

[z31maniac]

We've never been a democracy

We were never suppose to be.

Representative republic != democracy

[Dozyproductions]

My friend is in Istanbul now. All she could say was the real protestors are overly peaceful and that the police reaction is inhumane.

And yes this has to happen in the United States. We've never been a democracy and we resemble more of a corporate oligarchy if anything.

[gtdragon980]

Yeah, I guess that's true. There is some pretty good government tyranny happening already. As mrsleeve says, the average age of a democracy before shit hits the fan is around 200 years.

Maybe wishful thinking on my part that we won't have to deal with another civil war in our lifetimes.

I sure as hell would not like to deal with a civil war or rebellion against the government in my lifetime, but sometimes, you just can't expect what is gonna happen next.

[BraveUlysses]

^

remember the average age of the great democracies of history was 200 years before falling into tyranny , we are on borrowed time.

This statement is based on what exactly?

[nando]

can't blame them for protesting. Hopefully it's resolved peacefully but I doubt it.

^

remember the average age of the great democracies of history was 200 years before falling into tyranny , we are on borrowed time.

and Jesus Christ is going to come down from the sky and take only rich, white landowners with him. right? ;)

The difference here is even though we're armed to the teeth, we don't generally go and send suicide bombers to kill people from the political party/religion we don't like.

we just send drones overseas and do it with remote controls.

[Cletonius]

I say, who's to say it wouldn't happen? Anything can happen in our world. Just because we live in America, a "free country", doesn't mean we are safe from the tyranny of overpowering governments and rebellion. It has happened before and most likely will happen again.

Yeah, I guess that's true. There is some pretty good government tyranny happening already. As mrsleeve says, the average age of a democracy before shit hits the fan is around 200 years.

Maybe wishful thinking on my part that we won't have to deal with another civil war in our lifetimes.

[mrsleeve]

^

remember the average age of the great democracies of history was 200 years before falling into tyranny , we are on borrowed time.

[gtdragon980]

It will happen eventually, loss of freedoms, destabilization of the financial system, food shortages, etc. We are on the longterm path.

I'm not saying this will happen in the near future or anything, just that it will happen if things don't fundamentally change at a societal level.

I say, who's to say it wouldn't happen? Anything can happen in our world. Just because we live in America, a "free country", doesn't mean we are safe from the tyranny of overpowering governments and rebellion. It has happened before and most likely will happen again.

[Cletonius]

You think we will have riots? Over what exactly?

reallllyy now.

It will happen eventually, loss of freedoms, destabilization of the financial system, food shortages, etc. We are on the longterm path.

I'm not saying this will happen in the near future or anything, just that it will happen if things don't fundamentally change at a societal level.

[Q5Quint]

copypasta from reddit:

tldr: Prime minister privatized gov assets, Hippies protested selling of park for a shopping mall, riot police beat the waffles out of them in their sleep, the whole country has had enough and starts freaking out because he also banned beer and turned every public school into a islamist school. And some other stuff.

I will say it louder
HE BANNED BEER AND TURNED ALL PUBLIC SCHOOLS INTO ISLAM SCHOOLS WTF

[–]skylorelding [+1] 190 points 3 hours ago (200|19)
A Brief Introduction to Turkey Protests:
-How it started?

Police fiercely cracked down a few dozen of peaceful tree huggers trying to prevent a park from being demolished without any legal basis for building a shopping mall instead. Photos of the violent crack down became symbolic and people started to join protests against the police. Government tried to disperse them with more violence, so more and more people started to join the protests. A few dozen protesters in a small park became hundreds of thousands just in 2 days in multiple cities.

-Why they are protesting?
It started as a small environmentalist protest. But police violence was the last straw. It became a mass protest against PM Erdogan's and AKP government's authoritarian rule.

Here is a very small and summarized list of what happened during the 12 year AKP government rule:
Educational system was changed with haste, without any popular consensus. Many highschools are converted to religious schools without notice. Religion classes proliferated. PM Erdogan stated clearly that he wants to raise a devout youth. AKP government tweaked university admission formulas privileging Islamist youth from religious high schools.

Turkey became world's biggest prison for journalists. Widespread arrests were made claiming that they were anti-state terrorists. Erdogan also forced media to self-censor. Prominent journalists criticising his politics were all fired by the mainstream media bosses because they did not want their other big businesses to suffer.

Hundreds of university and highschool students were arrested and imprisoned just because they joined protests against high admission fees.
Violent crack downs were made in many public protests. They forbade people to gather in squares.

PM Erdogan refused to lower election threshold after collecting votes by promising it. He gerrymandered against locals wishes.

Displays of affection on public and on TV shows were restricted. Announcements were made in public transport to behave "decent". AKP even forced the producers to "marry" bachelor characters in popular TV shows.

Erdogan supported abortion ban. He relentlessly stated that he wants every single Turkish woman to have at least three kids. Day after pills are restricted.

Government restricted alcohol. They forbade consumption of alcohol in music and university festivals. PM Erdogan continuiously scorned and insulted people who drink alcohol. AKP municipalities removed outdoor tables and chairs of pubs from streets. They passed a bill forbidding to drink alcohol where it can be seen from outside.

Warmonger. PM Erdogan continiously tried to force the Western countries to go to war in Syria. He gave support to Sunni Islamists. Those Sunni Islamists harrased Shia minority in southeastern Turkey. He ignored it.
They imprisoned generals and military officers without concrete evidence. They detained them without evidence for years. Turkish people respect their military.

Erdogan undermined and disrespected Turkish soldiers killed in action in his statements. He saw them as disposable persons. Did I say that Turks respect their military?

Erdogan threatened to abolish the constituitonal court when he was denied after he tried to pass bills contradicting the constitution.

A drone attack killed 34 kurdish people in eastern Turkey, assuming they were PKK terrorists. Intelligence reports were wrong. Erdogan burried the investigation because it was his orders.
AKP government burried a lot of corruption cases.

Erdogan continiously denied requests from the Alevite minority to recognize their worship spaces as legal religious practice spaces just like mosques, churches or synagogues. He recently instigated secterian tensions, naming the third bridge which will be built on Bosphorus after an Ottoman sultan renown as a Alevite massacrer.

He privatized almost every single public asset ignoring opinions and objections from the public. He allowed destruction of forests and natural habitats to build hotels and residences despite objections.

AKP government increased internet censorship. Web sites were arbitrarily banned.

AKP appointed inadequate people as university deans conforming to its political views despite heavy objections from academia and students.
Parliament members and a ex-minister of the AKP shunned LGBT problems in the country and explicitly called LGBT people sick, claiming homosexuality as a curable disease.

TL,DR: Turks are saying to PM Erdogan: "You can't do anything you want just because you won the elections. Especially, don't interfere with our lifestyles."
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[BrewCity11]

My girlfriend lives 2 minutes away from the epicenter of this whole thing. Been getting constant updates from her and other family members. She's been gassed and witnessed many many injuries at the hands of police.

Now, the gov't is sending out their civil 'police' to pretend to be protesters, acting like thugs, throwing stones, breaking shit, etc. To make the real peaceful protesters look bad.

Its spread into other parts of the country even.

The PM isn't budging, calling the protestors street bums who are hurting the fabric of the nation.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan is leaving on a trip to Tunisia, Morocco and Algiers - countries that overthrew their leaders after massive rebellions.

Hahaha lol, doing some research???? Great image you're setting for yourself. Leave your country during this huge uprising.

And, i'm moving there in 2 months. Lets see what happens.