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    Spike in gun deaths after BG checks eliminated

    Researchers claim their new study is compelling confirmation that weaknesses in firearm laws in the US lead to deaths from gun violence.


    Probably too many words for some of you, but two ways, at least, of looking at it:

    1) criminals will get guns if they want them

    2) most gun crimes are committed by criminals

    Researchers claim a new study provides some of the most compelling evidence yet for tighter gun controls in the US.

    The team followed the consequences of the State of Missouri repealing its permit-to-purchase handgun law in 2007.

    The law had required purchasers to be vetted by the local sheriff and to receive a licence before buying a gun.

    Reporting soon in the Journal of Urban Health, the researchers will say that the repeal resulted in an immediate spike in gun violence and murders.

    The study links the abandonment of the background check to an additional 60 or so murders occurring per year in Missouri between 2008 and 2012.

    “Coincident exactly with the policy change, there was an immediate upward trajectory to the homicide rates in Missouri,” said Prof Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

    “That upward trajectory did not happen with homicides that did not involve guns; it did not occur to any neighbouring state; the national trend was doing the opposite – it was trending downward; and it was not specific to one or two localities – it was, for the most part, state-wide,” he told BBC News.

    The team said it took account of changes that occurred in policing levels and incarceration rates, trends in burglaries, and statistically controlled for other possible confounding factors such as shifts in unemployment and poverty.

    What was stark, added Prof Webster, was the rise in the number of handguns that subsequently found their way into the hands of criminals.

    The team counted a doubling of handguns shortly after sale being recovered from scenes of crimes or from criminals.

    "This study is compelling confirmation that weaknesses in firearm laws lead to deaths from gun violence," said Prof Webster.

    The Johns Hopkins researcher was participating in a discussion here at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

    The theme was “science-based strategies for reducing gun violence”.

    America currently has more than 300 million handguns in circulation. But the issue of gun control remains a hugely contentious one.
    I'm not taking sides, just stirring discussion.
    2011 1M Alpine white/black
    1996 Civic white/black
    1988 M3 lachs/black

    #2
    It's not rocket science. The easier/cheaper it is to obtain something, the more people will obtain it. Hence why background checks are so important for reducing gun violence; make it harder for those who aren't allowed to have guns to get one, and (surprise) they'll have fewer guns.

    Comment


      #3
      My ad hominem attack of the day:

      Daniel W. Webster, ScD, MPH is Professor of Health Policy and Management and directs the PhD program in Health and Public Policy at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

      Bloomberg

      Bloomberg

      Bloomberg
      sigpic
      Originally posted by JinormusJ
      Don't buy an e30

      They're stupid
      1989 325is Raged on then sold.
      1988 325 SETA 2DR Beaten to death, then parted.
      1988 325 SETA 4DR Parted.
      1990 325i Cabrio Daily'd, then stored 2 yrs ago.

      Comment


        #4
        Really, if you make guns harder to get, less law abiding citizens will go through the steps to procure said item, but criminals will continue procuring a tool they assume is required for their "career", then, more criminals with guns, and less "marks" without firearms. Sounds like a vicious circle similar to the welfare merry-go-round.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber View Post
          Really, if you make guns harder to get, less law abiding citizens will go through the steps to procure said item, but criminals will continue procuring a tool they assume is required for their "career", then, more criminals with guns, and less "marks" without firearms. Sounds like a vicious circle similar to the welfare merry-go-round.
          Why would background checks be a barrier to law abiding citizens?

          Comment


            #6
            Because, some of us law abiding citizens have better things to do than jump through a whole bunch of hoops.

            When you have a CCP/CWP, it's pretty easy, but otherwise, you have to make multiple trips, etc., whereas a thug just buys a burner out the back of a 1987 Buick Regal and tosses it after use, likely only uses the ammunition loaded when the buy was made.

            All the drama and fuct up red tape bureaucracy I have watched law abiding citizens go through to buy a gun, having to straighten out issues with multiple branches and agencies.

            They are getting legal citizens to give up by attrition.

            Comment


              #7
              All retail and gun show firearms purchases still must undergo a background check and perspective buyrs still must fill out a form 4470...........................

              All this did was elimiante the provision that you had to get a pemission slip from your local constabulary to aquire a hand gun in addition to the federal requirments.................
              Originally posted by Fusion
              If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
              The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


              The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

              Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
              William Pitt-

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber View Post
                Really, if you make guns harder to get, less law abiding citizens will go through the steps to procure said item, but criminals will continue procuring a tool they assume is required for their "career", then, more criminals with guns, and less "marks" without firearms. Sounds like a vicious circle similar to the welfare merry-go-round.
                This makes ZERO sense at all. You're saying that a background check makes it harder for LAW-ABIDING citizens to get a gun and will therefor make them purchase fewer of them, but it has ZERO effect on criminals and will make no changes to their habits at all? I don't know if you could get it any more backwards? :shrug:

                Let's try a test: Two people, one with a felony record and one without, try to buy a gun OTC. The man without a criminal record gets his gun, the man with the felony doesn't because of the background check. Who's firearm purchase was made more difficult by the background check process?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber View Post
                  Because, some of us law abiding citizens have better things to do than jump through a whole bunch of hoops.

                  When you have a CCP/CWP, it's pretty easy, but otherwise, you have to make multiple trips, etc., whereas a thug just buys a burner out the back of a 1987 Buick Regal and tosses it after use, likely only uses the ammunition loaded when the buy was made.

                  All the drama and fuct up red tape bureaucracy I have watched law abiding citizens go through to buy a gun, having to straighten out issues with multiple branches and agencies.

                  They are getting legal citizens to give up by attrition.
                  This also makes ZERO sense. Let's say you want to buy a gun, right now. What method would be more difficult for you?

                  1) Go to a store, fill out the forms and buy a gun legally.

                  2) Find some shady people, spend weeks or months getting to know said shady characters, build their trust, ask if they have guns for sale, find out they don't, talk to their shady friends, eventually find someone with a gun for sale, pay 2-3x as much as retail for one, all the while exposing yourself to significant danger by dealing with said shady people and the underground gun market.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by CorvallisBMW View Post
                    This also makes ZERO sense. Let's say you want to buy a gun, right now. What method would be more difficult for you?

                    1) Go to a store, fill out the forms and buy a gun legally.

                    2) Find some shady people, spend weeks or months getting to know said shady characters, build their trust, ask if they have guns for sale, find out they don't, talk to their shady friends, eventually find someone with a gun for sale, pay 2-3x as much as retail for one, all the while exposing yourself to significant danger by dealing with said shady people and the underground gun market.
                    No.

                    I didn't mean harder, I meant more arduous. And, you are wrong, it would be more time consuming for me to procure a firearm via the system of bureaucracy than the other method.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber View Post
                      Because, some of us law abiding citizens have better things to do than jump through a whole bunch of hoops.

                      When you have a CCP/CWP, it's pretty easy, but otherwise, you have to make multiple trips, etc., whereas a thug just buys a burner out the back of a 1987 Buick Regal and tosses it after use, likely only uses the ammunition loaded when the buy was made.

                      All the drama and fuct up red tape bureaucracy I have watched law abiding citizens go through to buy a gun, having to straighten out issues with multiple branches and agencies.

                      They are getting legal citizens to give up by attrition.
                      Quoted for truth.

                      Not to mention that red tape does nothing to prevent using a legally acquired gun owned by a family member, friend, neighbor...ect instead of going and buying one.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber View Post
                        No.

                        I didn't mean harder, I meant more arduous. And, you are wrong, it would be more time consuming for me to procure a firearm via the system of bureaucracy than the other method.
                        hard = arduous. They're synonymous. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arduous

                        And I call BS, unless you hang out with illegal gun-runners on a regular basis and they live closer than the nearest Wal-Mart

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by CorvallisBMW View Post
                          Two people, one with a felony record and one without, try to buy a gun OTC. The man without a criminal record gets his gun from a gun store, the man with the felony doesn't get his from a gun store because of the background check, he gets his from his man on the street.
                          Fixed ;)

                          Also, I thought I'd leave this here... this is something a lot of news outlets don't go into detail with when they quote gun death rates - a large percentage of gun death is gang related or self inflicted. Solution? Don't buy a gun if you get frumpy sometimes and don't move into the city.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Farbin Kaiber View Post
                            No.

                            I didn't mean harder, I meant more arduous. And, you are wrong, it would be more time consuming for me to procure a firearm via the system of bureaucracy than the other method.
                            Here we have it folks, we should only consider laws that aren't time consuming for people like farbin.

                            Despite you handwaving this away because you shall not be impeded with difficult things like paperwork and visiting a police office (oh the hugemanitee), this excerpt of the study doesn't really jive with your notion that people buying stolen guns aren't affected.



                            The increase in murders with firearms in Missouri began in the first full year after the PTP handgun law was repealed when data from crime gun traces revealed simultaneous large increases in the number of guns diverted to criminals and in guns purchased in Missouri that were subsequently recovered by police in border states that retained their PTP laws.
                            [...]
                            For firearm sales by federally licensed firearm dealers, federal law requires prospective purchasers to pass a criminal background check and sellers to maintain records of the sale. But federal law and laws in most states exempt these regulations when the firearm seller is unlicensed. The researchers suggest that universal background checks and firearm purchaser licensing affect homicide rates by reducing the availability of guns to criminals and other prohibited groups.

                            "Because many perpetrators of homicide have backgrounds that would prohibit them from possessing firearms under federal law, they seek out private dealers to acquire their weapons," said study author Jon Vernick, JD,
                            Gun owners love the idea that the government doesn't get to know anything about the chain of custody is for a weapon after it is sold at a dealer.

                            And so do criminals.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by BraveUlysses View Post
                              Here we have it folks, we should only consider laws that aren't time consuming for people like farbin.
                              I agree.
                              sigpic
                              Originally posted by JinormusJ
                              Don't buy an e30

                              They're stupid
                              1989 325is Raged on then sold.
                              1988 325 SETA 2DR Beaten to death, then parted.
                              1988 325 SETA 4DR Parted.
                              1990 325i Cabrio Daily'd, then stored 2 yrs ago.

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