Spike in gun deaths after BG checks eliminated

[z31maniac]

Yep.

Very well said.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Some people do something wrong, so the solution is punish all people. I'm sure this will work well when someone is going around saying bad things, so to protect everyone from the few that are saying bad things, we will all have to give up the right to free speech, and instead will have ll our communications and messages monitored and verified for niceness via forms and monitors at the FCC.

[CorvallisBMW]

Some people do something wrong, so the solution is punish all people. I'm sure this will work well when someone is going around saying bad things, so to protect everyone from the few that are saying bad things, we will all have to give up the right to free speech, and instead will have ll our communications and messages monitored and verified for niceness via forms and monitors at the FCC.

How are background checks a punishment?

[Farbin Kaiber]

Because of the potential for bureaucratic abuses and the ability for people to be denied a right due to unrelated, or unfounded charges.

Guy does what he is supposed to, gets his Obamacare once he gets through the website, starts seeing his Dr. and at a routine checkup, mentions to the Dr. he has been 'bummed' out due to his wife losing her job, and not getting a raise at work because of cuts his boss made due to rising healthcare costs, so the Dr. makes a note, and suggests a prescription for Xanax. Guy takes a few scheduled doses and decides he doesn't feel right and discontinues use.

Eleven months later, his brother and best friend plan a hunting trip, so Guy goes down to local FFL/Gun Shop to pick up a new .270 rifle, and while he is there, he sees an XD(M) in 45ACP he saw in a magazine sitting in the DR. office waiting room at the end of last year, and decides to buy it as well. So, he fills out the paperwork, and waits for the background check. Seven days later, he gets a letter, and a call from the Gun Shop, that he has been declined by the FBI/DHS for his firearm purchase because of a red flag in the system due to a medical diagnosis of Pharmaceutically treated Clinical Depression, so his gun ownership rights have been revoked, and to call his County Sheriff to schedule a pick up of all other registered and unregistered firearms stored at his physical address.

And that is one way they are a punishment.

[sumoashe]

So the alternative is to get rid of all restrictions? That way instead of a criminal having to go to the illegal market he can simply go to a gun store and buy whatever he wants, as much as he wants that day. So now we have anyone with a excuse to kill given open access to the tools to do it, legally. Sure that would do alot to lower homicide rates. It's basically taking a step back to the wild west days. Where people were being killed for the smallest of excuses.

I think you guys don't understand the constitution. The rights laid out are not there for the government to protect, it's up to the people to protect those rights. And the people aren't doing their damn jobs, so the gov steps in. And of course their going to go over board, its the gov. It's the same excuse of why cops don't prevent crime, it's not their job. Their job is to respond to a crime that's already been committed and make arrests after the fact. It's the people's job to prevent crime. We are supposed to police ourselves within the rights given to us. Instead all we do is look the other way, and tell ourselves it's not our problem. And then bitch when the gov is forced to step in.

You don't want the gov to step in? Then do your fucking job as a citizen, and they won't have to. Otherwise you have absolutely zero right to complain after the fact, because you caused the issue in the first place by doing nothing. Personal responsibility means your responsible for the quality of world in which you live. That's the job you agreed to do in exchange for the rights given to you. So do your fucking job, or give up those rights.

[mrsleeve]

well since you dont seem to know the difference between a straw purchase and a legal private party transfer you have little to room to weigh in on the topic. that said you should be consulting with your father about the business that has kept your belly full and a roof over your head, before you go on a rant that is full of 1/2 truth's. IL requires the documentation of a FOID card for all Private party transfers, the state SAYS you have a firearm with a fucking CARD to all gun owners. That is your background check. As to the waiting period that is a stupid thing in the 1st place and are all the show you attend in IL . Next every gun show I have attended in multiple states in the last 10 years has a NO PRIVATE PARTY SALE rule on the grounds unless you fill out the 4470 at the front.


that said

Our President Says We Can't Judge All Muslims "by the Acts of a Few Lunatics"...
Yet your ilk and he wants us to judge all gun owners by the acts of a few lunatics

[2761377]

...
I think you guys don't understand the constitution. The rights laid out are not there for the government to protect, it's up to the people to protect those rights. And the people aren't doing their damn jobs, so the gov steps in. And of course their going to go over board, its the gov. It's the same excuse of why cops don't prevent crime, it's not their job. Their job is to respond to a crime that's already been committed and make arrests after the fact. It's the people's job to prevent crime. We are supposed to police ourselves within the rights given to us. Instead all we do is look the other way, and tell ourselves it's not our problem. And then bitch when the gov is forced to step in.

You don't want the gov to step in? Then do your fucking job as a citizen, and they won't have to. Otherwise you have absolutely zero right to complain after the fact, because you caused the issue in the first place by doing nothing. Personal responsibility means your responsible for the quality of world in which you live. That's the job you agreed to do in exchange for the rights given to you. So do your fucking job, or give up those rights.

there's so much fail in this post I get tired even of thinking rebutting it all. let me just say You do not understand the Constitution. it enumerates Natural Rights, which are NOT GIVEN to us by any one. It attempts to restrict the government from infringing on those rights. in particular, the 2nd Amendment enumerated the right of the populace to confront the government when said government wantonly treads upon the Natural Rights of the populace.

the populace has NO obligation to do anything to preserve the Natural Rights specifically enumerated in the Constitution. Indeed, NOTHING can be done to change the function of a Natural Right. the chief of which is self-protection.

[Farbin Kaiber]

^This.

[mrsleeve]

there's so much fail in this post I get tired even of thinking rebutting it all. let me just say You do not understand the Constitution. it enumerates Natural Rights, which are NOT GIVEN to us by any one. It attempts to restrict the government from infringing on those rights. in particular, the 2nd Amendment enumerated the right of the populace to confront the government when said government wantonly treads upon the Natural Rights of the populace.

the populace has NO obligation to do anything to preserve the Natural Rights specifically enumerated in the Constitution. Indeed, NOTHING can be done to change the function of a Natural Right. the chief of which is self-protection.

THIS

I started a long LONG post earlier today but gave up as I have done so with this guy in the past and it does nothing

[CorvallisBMW]

Because of the potential for bureaucratic abuses and the ability for people to be denied a right due to unrelated, or unfounded charges.

So simply because something has the potential for abuse means that it is inherently a punishment? That's really, really dumb. Like REALLY dumb. I hope you're not using that as a serious argument in this discussion.

Guy does what he is supposed to, gets his Obamacare once he gets through the website, starts seeing his Dr. and at a routine checkup, mentions to the Dr. he has been 'bummed' out due to his wife losing her job, and not getting a raise at work because of cuts his boss made due to rising healthcare costs, so the Dr. makes a note, and suggests a prescription for Xanax. Guy takes a few scheduled doses and decides he doesn't feel right and discontinues use.

Eleven months later, his brother and best friend plan a hunting trip, so Guy goes down to local FFL/Gun Shop to pick up a new .270 rifle, and while he is there, he sees an XD(M) in 45ACP he saw in a magazine sitting in the DR. office waiting room at the end of last year, and decides to buy it as well. So, he fills out the paperwork, and waits for the background check. Seven days later, he gets a letter, and a call from the Gun Shop, that he has been declined by the FBI/DHS for his firearm purchase because of a red flag in the system due to a medical diagnosis of Pharmaceutically treated Clinical Depression, so his gun ownership rights have been revoked, and to call his County Sheriff to schedule a pick up of all other registered and unregistered firearms stored at his physical address.

And that is one way they are a punishment.

Again, you can make up all the crazy stories and fictitious scenarios you want, it doesn't make any of it true or answer any legitimate questions. Your answer is factualy equivalent to:

[MF DOOM]

So simply because something has the potential for abuse means that it is inherently a punishment? That's really, really dumb. Like REALLY dumb. I hope you're not using that as a serious argument in this discussion.


Again, you can make up all the crazy stories and fictitious scenarios you want, it doesn't make any of it true or answer any legitimate questions. Your answer is factualy equivalent to:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...=Share+Buttons


Tell me more about these fake stories.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Inb4 The Blaze in not a credible news source being as it's owned by Glenn Beck....

[sumoashe]

You do not understand the Constitution. it enumerates Natural Rights, which are NOT GIVEN to us by any one.

If it's a natural right then it doesn't need to put on paper to hold value. So why did they put it down? They were responses to how the british gov was ruling at the time. In order to seperate themselves and attract people to move to the new country. I.e. were different, were better, come here. Remember there was a time when slavery was a natural right. Or slaughtering tribes of native americans for their land was a natural right.

the populace has NO obligation to do anything to preserve the Natural Rights specifically enumerated in the Constitution.

Then the populace has no right to complain when these "natural rights" are being ignored. Just the same you have no right to complain about being poor if you refuse to get a job. You want something, then you have to work for it. You want something protected, then get off your ass and protect it. You want something fixed, fix it yourself. Stop expecting someone else to do it for you.

Like I've said, I uphold the rights for people to purchase firearms. But at the same time I don't bitch when the gov gets involved because the people won't be proactive in keeping them out of the hands of criminals. The excuse "it's not my job" doesn't fly. Cause-people do nothing but bitch, Effect-government steps in.

I don't agree with the gov punishing all people for the crimes of the few. But what choice do they have when nobody else is stepping in to fix the issue? If the people won't police themselves then they have to step in to try and fix the situation the people are unwilling to do themselves.

Protecting your rights is a proactive thing, not reactive. Problem being, no one is being proactive, so the gov is being reactive. You have to protect your rights before there taken away, not complain after the fact. And all I've seen gun nuts do is sit on their ass doing nothing but bitching bout the 2a. If you would put half the effort into prevention as you do complaining then things wouldn't be where they are now. You reap what you sow. Or, you get the society and government you deserve by both your actions and the lack there of.

[z31maniac]

I love the "Natural Rights" argument.

When that was written you only had rights if you were a white, land owning male. Females, blacks, indians had no such rights.

But keep thinking your 9mm and AR-15 are going to keep the gubmint at bay when they come for your guns and your bibles.

[Farbin Kaiber]

^You know it's not a 9mm, it's a 1911 with Jesus grips, duh.