Another Botched SWAT no knock

[Vedubin01]

I agree with everything in that article. Senseless.

BTW, the first legal pot store opened in Bellingham yesterday. As far as I can tell, the world hasn't come to an end.

They did report a shortage of pot in Seattle though.

[Dozyproductions]

That was left in the comment section. Actually footage of shooting a man to death by swat team. Wield a golf club, get shot to death... where are the tasers? What are the statistics of swat teams meeting with similarly armed resistance?

[ParsedOut]

That was left in the comment section. Actually footage of shooting a man to death by swat team. Wield a golf club, get shot to death... where are the tasers? What are the statistics of swat teams meeting with similarly armed resistance?

Uhg, shoot first ask questions later. In their defense someone is showing an aggressive posture with a potentially deadly weapon, granted in full riot gear that 9 iron wouldn't do shit. Also, if they rushed in and tackled the guy they would be putting themselves in a vulnerable position for other people in the house that might have a gun. Sucks for the family, but if the police are yelling "Search warrant!" don't be fucking stupid.

[Dozyproductions]

They're yelling police and search warrants like beef heads to a point where through walls and in that time of night I wouldn't be able to distinguish between what they're saying and dogs barking to tell you the truth. Plus a golf club from the opposite side of the room suggests itchy trigger finger.

That's as far as I'll go since I'm clueless to the swat team's perspective. It does make me want to ask, what's the problem if the swat team surrounded the house and bang on the door first? Bust it down only after repeated failed attempts and then careful slow search of the house? Their protocols seem to knee jerk people in to natural animalistic self preservation mode which of course ends into shoot first ask questions later scenarios.

That's why I asked, how many houses are they going to go into where the occupants are going to go into a gun fight fully aware that they're surrounded by a militarized swat team? Legit question.

[ParsedOut]

That's why I asked, how many houses are they going to go into where the occupants are going to go into a gun fight fully aware that they're surrounded by a militarized swat team? Legit question.

I'd say enough that it would create a much higher risk to the swat team, enough time to set up ambush points and booby traps. They need to work on better threat assessment and have the most highly trained and level headed "operators" run lead. A firearm combo that has lethal and non-lethal options with split second switch should be made standard. Golf club, baseball bat, fists raised, shoot with non-lethal...gun or knife, shoot lethal.

[einhander]

They're yelling police and search warrants like beef heads to a point where through walls and in that time of night I wouldn't be able to distinguish between what they're saying and dogs barking to tell you the truth. Plus a golf club from the opposite side of the room suggests itchy trigger finger.

That's as far as I'll go since I'm clueless to the swat team's perspective. It does make me want to ask, what's the problem if the swat team surrounded the house and bang on the door first? Bust it down only after repeated failed attempts and then careful slow search of the house? Their protocols seem to knee jerk people in to natural animalistic self preservation mode which of course ends into shoot first ask questions later scenarios.

That's why I asked, how many houses are they going to go into where the occupants are going to go into a gun fight fully aware that they're surrounded by a militarized swat team? Legit question.

I don't get why they have to bust in.

Just secure the house and wait the people out.

A quick recourse to violence is a sign of moral bankruptcy.

[ParsedOut]

I don't get why they have to bust in.

Just secure the house and wait the people out.

A quick recourse to violence is a sign of moral bankruptcy.

That's when you end up with multiple day standoffs, many times with hostages (girlfriend, kids, neighbor) or ending with suicide anyway. Quick in and quick out, they just need to work on how they assess the threat level and have other means of stopping a non-immediate lethal threat.

[einhander]

That's when you end up with multiple day standoffs, many times with hostages (girlfriend, kids, neighbor) or ending with suicide anyway. Quick in and quick out, they just need to work on how they assess the threat level and have other means of stopping a non-immediate lethal threat.

If they secure the house, the neighbor won't be a hostage. I'm sure most, aside from weirdos, would prefer a multi-week stand-off to shoot-em-ups.

Anyway, I should have said in this instance, I don't understand why they can't wait. The state shouldn't be taking lives of its citizens.

[ParsedOut]

If they secure the house, the neighbor won't be a hostage. I'm sure most, aside from weirdos, would prefer a multi-week stand-off to shoot-em-ups.

Anyway, I should have said in this instance, I don't understand why they can't wait. The state shouldn't be taking lives of its citizens.

So girlfriends, kids, friends in the house are fair game? Criminals are fucked up and generally don't make rational decisions...not saying I prefer shoot em ups either, that's why I'm saying the tactics and training need to be worked on. Waiting them out isn't the best solution.

[Dozyproductions]

I'd say enough that it would create a much higher risk to the swat team, enough time to set up ambush points and booby traps. They need to work on better threat assessment and have the most highly trained and level headed "operators" run lead. A firearm combo that has lethal and non-lethal options with split second switch should be made standard. Golf club, baseball bat, fists raised, shoot with non-lethal...gun or knife, shoot lethal.

Interesting and agree with non lethal combo being standard and higher standard with these "operators". I guess if the rest of the country takes Mass.' lead it won't make a difference.
I can't claim to have seen everything in the world but still my gut has me aligning me more with what einhander has written out. If due process is to be performed, it has to be able to carried out before the person is killed.

I don't get why they have to bust in.

Just secure the house and wait the people out.

A quick recourse to violence is a sign of moral bankruptcy.

[einhander]

So girlfriends, kids, friends in the house are fair game? Criminals are fucked up and generally don't make rational decisions...not saying I prefer shoot em ups either, that's why I'm saying the tactics and training need to be worked on. Waiting them out isn't the best solution.

You can be a criminal and be rational. That's another debate though.

Something did go wrong, for sure, but coming in heavy should be the last option. To your point, it was a tactical failure, indeed.

[smooth]

2 dollars worth of pot? The way police weigh narcotics that's got to be a fucking stem or something

[mrsleeve]

Enihorn and I in agreemnet............................



The world must be about to end or some kinda rare celestial alingment

[einhander]

Shhh. Don't move or everything will collapse.

[ParsedOut]

Holy fucking trigger happy?! He asked the guy for his license, the guy tapped his back pocket realizing he didn't have his wallet then quickly turned back into the car and then shot. While he did make a quick dive to the driver's seat, he was obviously trying to be attentive to the request. Fuck... at least the cop has been fired and is now being charged with a felony.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/09/25/5198701/video-released-sc-trooper-charged.html#.VCSjxfldUmE