Enough about guns, what's with all the illegal immigrants!?

[kickinindian]

Unfortunately that was in a time when people were forced to work for a living or die trying, the semi-socialist environment we've created nurtures laziness. Like I've said, if we can ensure the people coming over (like the millions in the past) are willing and able to work for a living, then by all means let them in. This shouldn't be a race/culture argument by the massive amount of bigots in the country nor should it be about being a high and mighty nationalist, this should be about furthering our way of life by adding productive members of society. We have enough lazy fuckers sucking on the tit of our government, they need to be weaned and quickly before we open the floodgates.

the sad part is most of the people that are lazy in this country were born here most of the "illegal" immigrants i have met or seen work work pretty hard.

maybe we should do a trade system where we trade our lazy fucks for the people that would actually work

[ParsedOut]

most other countries are established populations in the world, and have a right to make it harder to become a citizen. where as the modern united states was founded on solely immigrants (Native Americans were the only established populations but a nice little genocide helped that problem). so the United States has no basis for a sense of Nationalism where by immigrants should be put down or cast out because they were not born here. not long ago, all people on this forum that are not native american (and dont say your part cherokee because thats a white man cop out) are all from a family that immigrated to this continent so dont be all high and mighty about it. if it was not for immigrants you guys would not be here.

Unfortunately that was in a time when people were forced to work for a living or die trying, the semi-socialist environment we've created nurtures laziness. Like I've said, if we can ensure the people coming over (like the millions in the past) are willing and able to work for a living, then by all means let them in. This shouldn't be a race/culture argument by the massive amount of bigots in the country nor should it be about being a high and mighty nationalist, this should be about furthering our way of life by adding productive members of society. We have enough lazy fuckers sucking on the tit of our government, they need to be weaned and quickly before we open the floodgates.

[kickinindian]

most other countries are established populations in the world, and have a right to make it harder to become a citizen. where as the modern united states was founded on solely immigrants (Native Americans were the only established populations but a nice little genocide helped that problem). so the United States has no basis for a sense of Nationalism where by immigrants should be put down or cast out because they were not born here. not long ago, all people on this forum that are not native american (and dont say your part cherokee because thats a white man cop out) are all from a family that immigrated to this continent so dont be all high and mighty about it. if it was not for immigrants you guys would not be here.

[ParsedOut]

More like contributors to the democratic party... why do you think the dems are all about this? Building a democratic base in the states like TX and AZ that normally vote the other way.... not only that but they are bringing disease and not much of a skill set. Only to leach off of the system that was not built for them!

While I agree that is a very real concern, there appear to be ways to encourage (if not regulating) the productivity of these immigrants. Most of them inherently are willing to work for a living, doing jobs most current Americans find repulsive and underpaid. The smartest thing Republicans can do is support strong reforms that benefit the immigrant without subjecting the country to further drain. The Dems will continue to "fuck this football" and only build an increasing voter base (American Hispanics) and win over these states anyway. That would be bad news for Repubs and/or Libertarians on a state and national level. Forget Ohio and Florida, these border states are the true voter battlegrounds.

[smooth]

More like contributors to the democratic party... why do you think the dems are all about this? Building a democratic base in the states like TX and AZ that normally vote the other way....

What Republicans Are Saying About Immigration Reform:

» "Immigration is an important part of our country's success and if policies are reformed, can be part of restoring and sustaining our greatness as a nation." - Former Governor of Florida Jeb Bush, 9/13/12

» "This country needs comprehensive immigration reform. I don't care whether it is the person who will crawl across the desert to make five dollars... or Sergey Brin, who comes here from Russia and founds Google. At both ends of the spectrum, America has always been able to attract the most ambitious people." - Former U.S. Sectretary of State Condoleeza Rice, 2009

» “For too long, both parties have used immigration as a political wedge issue…. But the time has come to find a bipartisan solution.” - U.S. Representative Mario Diaz-Balart, 12/17/12

» “I am still convinced that the overwhelming majority of our people just want what my parents had – a chance.” - U.S. Senator Marco Rubio, 12/5/12

» “Immigrants come with new skills and new ideas. They fill a critical part in our labor market. They work hard for a better life.” - President George W. Bush, 12/4/12

» “[Immigration] is a time-sensitive issue…. They (the young immigrants) want to go to college and be a part of our system.” - Former U.S. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson, 11/27/12

» “The election gave the Republican Party a wake-up call to the issue’s importance to Hispanic voters…. Both sides used immigration reform as a political football. I think they’ve realized the time has come to set the football down and actually work toward a solution.” - Former Chairman of the Republican National Hispanic Assembly Danny Vargas, 11/26/12

» “Republicans should approach it as the party of Reagan and Bush – the party that has historically been pro-immigration.” - Americans for Tax Reform President Grover Norquist, 11/9/12

» “There’s a bipartisan majority that realizes we have a problem on immigration. We have an immigration system that’s broken. And we can figure out how to do it by working together.” - U.S. Representative Raul Labrador, 11/8/12

» “[The issue of immigration] has been around far too long…. A comprehensive approach is long overdue.” - Speaker of the House John Boehner, 11/8/12

» “Immigration has become a wedge issue and a litmus test, a litmus test of respect and caring. So we need to get immigration reform done to finally get rid of that wedge issue that’s been afflicting our party for 10 or 15 years.” - American Conservative Union Chairman Al Cardenas, 11/8/12

» “We are a nation of immigrants, but we are also a nation of laws.” - Governor of New Mexico Susana Martinez, 7/31/12

-- http://www.republicansforimmigrationreform.org

[Vedubin01]

Undocumented workers are net contributors to our economy after calculating how much taxes are paid in vs how much assistance they draw

More like contributors to the democratic party... why do you think the dems are all about this? Building a democratic base in the states like TX and AZ that normally vote the other way.... not only that but they are bringing disease and not much of a skill set. Only to leach off of the system that was not built for them!

[marshallnoise]

"The Line" is invalid because it's based on annual limits, not minimum requirements for entry.

It's quite possible for people in "the line" NEVER to get citizenship. That's why saying "just wait in line" is ridiculous.

Once someone secures a place "in line", the process typically takes over 7 years. The system is totally broken. (If it weren't broken, we wouldn't be discussing immigration reform, right?)

We are discussing the immigration system because people are just pouring across the border and there is no enforcement. Not because it is hard to gain citizenship.

The line exists for a reason and it should be adhered to. Breaking the law as your way to becoming a citizen is a shitty way to show you add value to the country you wish to live in.

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[The Dark Side of Will]

But it's not immigrating, it's walking across a border and cutting in line.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

"The Line" is invalid because it's based on annual limits, not minimum requirements for entry.

It's quite possible for people in "the line" NEVER to get citizenship. That's why saying "just wait in line" is ridiculous.

Once someone secures a place "in line", the process typically takes over 7 years. The system is totally broken. (If it weren't broken, we wouldn't be discussing immigration reform, right?)

[smooth]

Undocumented workers are net contributors to our economy after calculating how much taxes are paid in vs how much assistance they draw

[marshallnoise]

Yes, it is open ended. It has to be to counteract the "that's how they do it everywhere else" mentality.

So what if they have an "advantage"? They were born where they were born, just like us. If they're willing to put forth the effort to actually immigrate here, move their families here and be productive, then I support that 100%.

But it's not immigrating, it's walking across a border and cutting in line.

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[ParsedOut]

Admittedly I don't know a ton about immigration law, but what if we granted a "conditional" citizenship to a MUCH larger amount of people looking to legally enter the country. During this time (5 years?), they cannot receive any government assistance, they cannot vote and the first legal violation (misdemeanor and up) they're citizenship is revoked and deported. Also during this time their income tax rate is severely lower than normal citizens (due to restricted rights) but must also have an active and legal job (like with a visa). This would encourage productive members of our society instead of people looking to move in, mooch off the system and continue to work under the table to avoid taxes...not saying everyone would do it, but we have enough current citizens doing this we don't need to exacerbate the situation.

[The Dark Side of Will]

That's a pretty open-ended statement.

Yes, it is open ended. It has to be to counteract the "that's how they do it everywhere else" mentality.

So what if they have an "advantage"? They were born where they were born, just like us. If they're willing to put forth the effort to actually immigrate here, move their families here and be productive, then I support that 100%.

[marshallnoise]

As usual, you are incorrect.

Ahh yes, a bigot in the midst. "We don't like the poor, the republican, the Christian here."

You must suffer from the same smug disease that smooth suffers from. Tragedy to be so intolerant while professing to be tolerant.

[marshallnoise]

Do you have ANY idea what that actually entails? That's an absurd expectation.

Will, then do people from South America, Central America and Mexico have an unfair advantage against anyone else who wants to immigrate here? I mean, all they have to do is walk across the border while everyone else who doesn't have a way to walk over has to wait. To me, that's an unfair advantage. Why shouldn't they have to go through the same wait times as everyone else?

Because this is the United States of America and we can do better.

That's a pretty open-ended statement.

[z31maniac]

Mock me all you want, but being poor, republican or a believer in Jesus are not things to be ashamed of.

As usual, you are incorrect.