Israeli ground assault on Gaza

[Dozyproductions]

Israel's land when again and then taken currently from who again? Its like you guys keep forgetting this. Jews, not Israelis, have been living there for ages yes but shoving one peoples sovereignty for another by mandate was supposedly past us in that era.

The rest of what you say is dribble at best because it doesnt seem that you understand where this hatred stems from in the first place.

We should build schools/etc etc instead of indirectly bombing Palestine

[BraveUlysses]

The crux of the Israel/Palestine conflict is this:
1. If Israel stopped military action in Palestine, Hamas would still shoot rockets into Israel.
2. If Hamas stopped shooting rockets into Israel, Israel would stop military action in Gaza.

#2 is completely bullshit. the blockade has been devastating for gaza and it has continued for 8 years, despite many periods of non-engagement between both sides.

its funny to watch someone like yourself who likes to parade yourself as someone who would stand up to the US government's tyranny fold over and support terrible regimes like Israel who are clearly in the wrong.

[The Dark Side of Will]

#2 is completely bullshit. the blockade has been devastating for gaza and it has continued for 8 years, despite many periods of non-engagement between both sides.

Your response is bullshit. ;)

I didn't mention "the blockade" did I?
Is the blockade of Iran wrong too? It probably is, but unfortunately, until they have a serious change of leadership (Iranians and Palestinians) we have a pretty good idea of what will happen when the blockade is relaxed. For the record, I disagree with the blockade of Iran, because I think the best way to improve their people's lives is to trade with them. I don't think their leadership is so insane that they would actually use nuclear arms. Not even North Korea is that crazy.

Hamas' tunnels are an example. As articles quoted in this thread point out, those materials could have gone to build something useful for the Palestinians. That is in fact why Israel allowed those materials in. Until Hamas is no longer in power, the Israelis know that's what's going to happen to with anything that gets into Gaza.

I am confident that if the Palestinians booted Hamas out of power, Israel would be willing to work with the Palestinians. There's obviously a LOT of bad blood between Hamas and Israel, and as we know, EVERYONE in the middle east holds grudges...

You think Israel shouldn't be in Palestine at all. Fair enough, maybe they shouldn't. Keeping that piece of land doesn't do anything for them, and the people want to live their own lives. However, if Israel releases Palestine *NOW* and gives them their independence, what will happen? Hamas will declare victory, rockets will cross the border for ever and ever and a MUCH bigger international uproar when Israel uses military force to protect themselves.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Israel's land when again and then taken currently from who again? Its like you guys keep forgetting this. Jews, not Israelis, have been living there for ages yes but shoving one peoples sovereignty for another by mandate was supposedly past us in that era.

Ok, let's give the land back to the Sumerians, then.

That's as silly as reparations to current black people for slavery.

[Dozyproductions]

Ok, let's give the land back to the Sumerians, then.

That's as silly as reparations to current black people for slavery.

What are you talking about? That's exactly the point I'm making against yours. Did you hit your head somewhere ;)

A dense concentration of Jews in the area? Sure in some perspectives but until the 19th century they never made more than a couple % of the population. Even after WWI it was only around 8%. Israel was created out a brilliant coordination between politics, timing and a mass migration of jews. (Not down playing any of the tragic events. I also lost a lot my family in those very same camps) Within the span of several years they were the small minority to vast majority. So are these the requirements for any nation to declare, or to be declared, its independence through the United Nations?

[BraveUlysses]

Your response is bullshit. ;)

I didn't mention "the blockade" did I?
Is the blockade of Iran wrong too? It probably is, but unfortunately, until they have a serious change of leadership (Iranians and Palestinians) we have a pretty good idea of what will happen when the blockade is relaxed. For the record, I disagree with the blockade of Iran, because I think the best way to improve their people's lives is to trade with them. I don't think their leadership is so insane that they would actually use nuclear arms. Not even North Korea is that crazy.

Hamas' tunnels are an example. As articles quoted in this thread point out, those materials could have gone to build something useful for the Palestinians. That is in fact why Israel allowed those materials in. Until Hamas is no longer in power, the Israelis know that's what's going to happen to with anything that gets into Gaza.

Of course you didn't mention the blockade--how else would you even try to make such a dishonest binary argument if you had acknowledged it? I bring it up because the blockade is fundamental to this issue, and you cannot expect a group of people so oppressed to ignore something that clearly crushes their economy and independence.

But you are right about the tunnels--they're not a good use of resources and need to be stopped, just like the blockade, Israeli settlements in Palestinian land and mass arrests of Palestinians.

I am confident that if the Palestinians booted Hamas out of power, Israel would be willing to work with the Palestinians. There's obviously a LOT of bad blood between Hamas and Israel, and as we know, EVERYONE in the middle east holds grudges...

You think Israel shouldn't be in Palestine at all. Fair enough, maybe they shouldn't. Keeping that piece of land doesn't do anything for them, and the people want to live their own lives. However, if Israel releases Palestine *NOW* and gives them their independence, what will happen? Hamas will declare victory, rockets will cross the border for ever and ever and a MUCH bigger international uproar when Israel uses military force to protect themselves.

Obviously keeping that land does do something for them, otherwise they wouldn't spend an inordinate amount of time, money and effort in maintaining the draconian security they have between their land and Palestine.

Israel is obviously encroaching year after year by creating more settlements in Palestinian lands, at what point will this stop? No matter who is elected to run Palestine, this is unlikely to stop.

The violence needs to end, on both sides--but it's painfully obvious who truly suffers in this war: Palestinian civilians.

[Dozyproductions]

It goes both ways.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/why_israel_lies_20140803

[helalo]

too many people farting opinions and they have never been here :|

please guys have the attention spam and memory of more than a month and use a bit of common sense more than what your foxnews and cnn and that website you found on google said.

having lost half of my family to israelie airstrikes, and none of them is a military unit during the 2006 war in lebanon i cant help but puke at some of the comments here. Palestine belongs to the Palestinian people. israel is built on the notion of a state for the jewish people. a state for 1 race, 1 religion. an apartheid state. arabs are treated as second class citizens with restricted rights like inability to buy land. you understand this is the opposite of democracy that they titled themselves with ? what do you expect from an army that has a mandatory draft at 18 or jail, and trains their soldiers to shoot their comrades if they are captured by enemy forces. they rather avoid the negotiations.

its funny that when EU (including the allied forces) were prosecuting jews and harassing them, the jews would seek shelter under muslim ruled areas, like palestine. so in return the UK decided to start a state within a state in palestine during their occupation. they decided to put their "problems" somewhere else, and the zionists decided to hurt back the only people that never harmed them in the first place. but forget the past, lets talk about now.

you keep talking about rockets into israel but you seem to forget theres a blockade on gaza and ramallah with constant fights and harassing. there are jewish people protesting and standing up against israel and denouncing any jewish ties it and distancing themselves for Zionism, but you still have people who stand with israel, if you fancy rewriting history its fun.

ahmad yassin himself said that he does not hate the jews or hold anything against him "if my own brother was to take my home, i will fight him" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Vq6KuAsrk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHtJSyWK0zw

i dont even try to change people minds anymore, its not my job.

heres something fun and not sided for you guys to watch eitherway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXjAfhCIDj4

[The Dark Side of Will]

What are you talking about? That's exactly the point I'm making against yours. Did you hit your head somewhere ;)

It sounded like the point your were trying to make was the classic anti-Semitic idea that Israel doesn't deserve to exist for [insert reason here - e.g. the land belongs to some other group]

A dense concentration of Jews in the area? Sure in some perspectives but until the 19th century they never made more than a couple % of the population. Even after WWI it was only around 8%. Israel was created out a brilliant coordination between politics, timing and a mass migration of jews. (Not down playing any of the tragic events. I also lost a lot my family in those very same camps) Within the span of several years they were the small minority to vast majority. So are these the requirements for any nation to declare, or to be declared, its independence through the United Nations?

Do they *NOT* have the right to declare independence?

The vote for U.S. independence wasn't unanimous.

[The Dark Side of Will]

It goes both ways.

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/..._lies_20140803

Comes up as a blank page

Obviously keeping that land does do something for them, otherwise they wouldn't spend an inordinate amount of time, money and effort in maintaining the draconian security they have between their land and Palestine.

Like I said, if they let go now (ie grant Palestinian independence or autonomy), Hamas will STILL shoot rockets into Israel AND striking back will be more difficult.

[The Dark Side of Will]

too many people farting opinions and they have never been here :|

please guys have the attention spam and memory of more than a month and use a bit of common sense more than what your foxnews and cnn and that website you found on google said.

having lost half of my family to israelie airstrikes, and none of them is a military unit during the 2006 war in lebanon i cant help but puke at some of the comments here. Palestine belongs to the Palestinian people. israel is built on the notion of a state for the jewish people. a state for 1 race, 1 religion. an apartheid state. arabs are treated as second class citizens with restricted rights like inability to buy land. you understand this is the opposite of democracy that they titled themselves with ? what do you expect from an army that has a mandatory draft at 18 or jail, and trains their soldiers to shoot their comrades if they are captured by enemy forces. they rather avoid the negotiations.

its funny that when EU (including the allied forces) were prosecuting jews and harassing them, the jews would seek shelter under muslim ruled areas, like palestine. so in return the UK decided to start a state within a state in palestine during their occupation. they decided to put their "problems" somewhere else, and the zionists decided to hurt back the only people that never harmed them in the first place. but forget the past, lets talk about now.

you keep talking about rockets into israel but you seem to forget theres a blockade on gaza and ramallah with constant fights and harassing. there are jewish people protesting and standing up against israel and denouncing any jewish ties it and distancing themselves for Zionism, but you still have people who stand with israel, if you fancy rewriting history its fun.

ahmad yassin himself said that he does not hate the jews or hold anything against him "if my own brother was to take my home, i will fight him" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Vq6KuAsrk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHtJSyWK0zw

i dont even try to change people minds anymore, its not my job.

heres something fun and not sided for you guys to watch eitherway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXjAfhCIDj4

How much of this is accurate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

Don't forget that Egypt, an ARAB state, blockades Palestine also. Hamas is bad news and nobody wants them around.

Some people are good some people are bad. You cite that Jews took shelter in Muslim countries. It's good that they were able to do that. What a lot of the world sees about Islam now is that extremists are persecuting Christians and Jews.

No one is blameless.

[BraveUlysses]

How much of this is accurate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

Don't forget that Egypt, an ARAB state, blockades Palestine also. Hamas is bad news and nobody wants them around.

That's a pretty poor deflection but apparently you didn't even read the article you linked

[The Dark Side of Will]

Blockade wouldn't be a blockade is Egypt weren't doing it too

[BraveUlysses]

Blockade wouldn't be a blockade is Egypt weren't doing it too

False equivalency, try again. Closing your own borders is not the same as closing someone else's borders.

Again, it looks like you still haven't read the article you linked.

Stop making these bullshit dishonest arguments.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Pull your head out of your ass and read what I wrote.

I asked if it was accurate. I didn't hold it up as a source. I didn't even ask you.

While you're at it, make an argument. Post a quote. If you're going to call me a liar, then post some evidence. Post a counter-argument. Calling me dishonest only shows that you don't have anything other than that to back up your point of view.

Back to the real world:
Palestine only borders two countries: Egypt and Israel. Both of them have blockaded their borders to it due to Hamas' rule.