Israelis in Gaza or Ferguson, MO?

[frankenbeemer]

I can't tell from the video if that is Michael Brown. According to the New York Times, Brown's accomplice admitted to police that Brown took cigarillos.

Mr. Johnson has admitted being in the convenience store with Mr. Brown and told investigators from the F.B.I. and St. Louis County that Mr. Brown did “take cigarillos,” Mr. Johnson’s lawyer, Freeman Bosley Jr., a former mayor of St. Louis, told MSNBC.

[smooth]

Attacking an officer and trying to wrestle his firearm away from him warrants what ever force is nessary to stop the altercation...............

Conflicting reports conflict........................... goinng to side with cop on this vs juvenile delinquents that just robed a party store, recounting of the event.

So the police, who have every reason to lie, say they were justified while eye witnesses who have no reason to lie say it didn't happen like that but you're going to side with the government?

[G-Man the Visionary]

Now check out the pictures of the dead body in the street. Did he change clothes AND walk 5 blocks in just a matter of minutes?

[smooth]

So, of all the times looting occurs in this country, who is usually doing it? It seems to me it's usually mostly black people. And why is that the case (really, not being a smartass)? Is it because black folks are being fucked with so much that this is the only way they can get our attention? Is it somehow a cultural thing? Am I a racist?

When I taught a crime and culture class I had my students go through all the police reports and do content analysis of media sources. What they found was that the number of black "looters" were depicted more often than other racial categories even if they were numerically less often doing any looting. I had some colleagues go down and conduct interviews after Katrina and they found that some "looters" were actually store owners grabbing their merchandise.

The takeaway is that our media sources tend to depict minorities, and urban black citizens in particular, as law breakers more often than they either are committing crime and/or an over-representation of them doing crimes relative to their population.

It is a "culture thing" but not a black culture thing. It's a media thing that speaks to our broader cultural construction of urban, black men as disproportionally violent and responsible for much of the crime that plagues America. Here's a book that tries to explain why this might occur by Jeffrey Reiman, http://www.amazon.com/Richer-Prison-.../dp/0205896103 (The Rich Get Richer and the Poor Get Prison)


meanwhile...

[mrsleeve]

So the police, who have every reason to lie, say they were justified while eye witnesses who have no reason to lie say it didn't happen like that but you're going to side with the government?

Just like they did with little Tray Tray right.............. yeah no reason to lie when you and your buddy didnt just pull a strong arm hold up of a QT either right, and what about the "no snitch" culture

[frankenbeemer]

The takeaway is that our media sources tend to depict minorities, and urban black citizens in particular, as law breakers more often than they either are committing crime and/or an over-representation of them doing crimes relative to their population.

Possibly, but I thought the stats showed otherwise.

What do you think of the latest looting spree? Are the otherwise peaceful protesters harboring the provocateurs and looters? Why can't the police arrest the criminals and still allow the peaceful assembly of the protesters?

[frankenbeemer]

So the police, who have every reason to lie, say they were justified while eye witnesses who have no reason to lie say it didn't happen like that but you're going to side with the government?

The witness here (Tiffany Mitchell) gives a credible statement:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/13/tiffany-mitchell-michael-brown_n_5677003.html

Her friend states: "I saw him turn around with his arms up in the air, and they shot him in his face and chest, and he went down unarmed," Piaget Crenshaw told the local media.

Check out this series of tweets which corroborates her account. Note that these tweets(apparently) were very shortly after the shooting:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-eyewitness-michael-brown-shooting-tweets-20140815-htmlstory.html

tl;dr: Three credible witnesses claim Brown was gunned down trying to surrender.

[einhander]

while I have little tolerance for govt breaking its own laws and pulling stupid shit, I have no issues with a man defending him self against someone that has assaulted him and is trying to take his weapon from him cop or not. I put little stock in the testimony of a agent of the state but when put against the word of a couple of thugs that just committed robbery and assaulted the clerk of a business just minuets before hand. I will put what little faith in who is telling the truth or the nearest version of the truth in the agent of the state.

I don't know, Sleeve. From what I can tell, and I'm content to be incorrect, but the cop didn't even know he committed a robbery.

He certainly committed assault, but it definitely wasn't anything for which he should have lost his life - even if one can connect the two incidents.

[Exodus_2pt0]

If the witness testimony mentioned in the OP is true, the no prior act excuses the police officer from murder.

As a firearm owner in the USA I know that under no circumstances am I permitted to shoot a perpetrator in the back, let alone one who is submitting to an arrest.

[smooth]

If the witness testimony mentioned in the OP is true, the no prior act excuses the police officer from murder.

As a firearm owner in the USA I know that under no circumstances am I permitted to shoot a perpetrator in the back, let alone one who is submitting to an arrest.

That's the part blowing me away...sleeve who otherwise talks a pretty big game on responsible gun ownership is totally ok with the police shooting an unarmed kid raising his hands surrendering...just because the shooter has a badge.

[frankenbeemer]

That's the part blowing me away...sleeve who otherwise talks a pretty big game on responsible gun ownership is totally ok with the police shooting an unarmed kid raising his hands surrendering...just because the shooter has a badge.

I don't think that is sleeve's position at all. This kind of juvenile word twisting discredits your argument.

[The Dark Side of Will]

When I taught a crime and culture class I had my students go through all the police reports and do content analysis of media sources. What they found was that the number of black "looters" were depicted more often than other racial categories even if they were numerically less often doing any looting. I had some colleagues go down and conduct interviews after Katrina and they found that some "looters" were actually store owners grabbing their merchandise.

The takeaway is that our media sources tend to depict minorities, and urban black citizens in particular, as law breakers more often than they either are committing crime and/or an over-representation of them doing crimes relative to their population.

It is a "culture thing" but not a black culture thing. It's a media thing that speaks to our broader cultural construction of urban, black men as disproportionally violent and responsible for much of the crime that plagues America. Here's a book that tries to explain why this might occur by Jeffrey Reiman, http://www.amazon.com/Richer-Prison-.../dp/0205896103 (The Rich Get Richer and the Poor Get Prison)

I totally agree that *AT LEAST* 90% of what the media presents is mis-represented. They present what sells and gets ratings. They don't present the truth.

I thought I bookmarked it, but it looks like I need to organize my bookmarks file.
A while back I ran across an informal analysis showing that the crime rate in several urban centers was strongly correlated to the black population, but invariant relative to other races (such as asian, white or hispanic, although hispanic data is difficult to separate from white data). This wasn't an analysis of police reports... it was as simple as number of crimes compared to census statistics for population.

I'm curious about your take on that. You've mentioned institutional racism before.

[Dozyproductions]

I don't think that is sleeve's position at all. This kind of juvenile word twisting discredits your argument.

Seeing as it happens quiet a bit that police change their story their own asses I find it hard to believe that kids are constantly wrestling with the cops for their firearms to warrant all these deaths. It's not word twisting, it's just pointing out some weird unrealistic expectations.

[BraveUlysses]

That's the part blowing me away...sleeve who otherwise talks a pretty big game on responsible gun ownership is totally ok with the police shooting an unarmed kid raising his hands surrendering...just because the shooter has a badge.

Don't forget he was a complete apologist for the militia types that showed up and pointed their loaded guns at federal agents at cliven bundy's standoff.

[frankenbeemer]

Seeing as it happens quiet a bit that police change their story their own asses I find it hard to believe that kids are constantly wrestling with the cops for their firearms to warrant all these deaths. It's not word twisting, it's just pointing out some weird unrealistic expectations.

Police misconduct happens far too often, it should not be tolerated. "Pointing out weird unrealistic expectations" shouldn't include misrepresentation of your opponents position, especially from a self proclaimed "scholar".