I feel like elon musk is profiting from our subsidies

[Wschnitz]

Because government subsidies are bad unless they help the oil and the cattle industry duh.

[gwb72tii]

No, you are NOT being penalized. You are not being charged any money, and the government is not obligated to come up with some tax rebate that's perfectly tailored to your unique life situation just because there isn't an electric vehicle that suits your needs.

If you can't afford the vehicle you want... get out there and earn more money!

Why the fuck am I having to talk to you like *i'm* the conservative here?

Because I am being charged. Your tax credit comes out of my pocket in the form of higher taxes.
But on second thought you may be right as the fed is monetizing our debt, so, in effect, the money is free. What a wonderful world

[BraveUlysses]

No, you are NOT being penalized. You are not being charged any money, and the government is not obligated to come up with some tax rebate that's perfectly tailored to your unique life situation just because there isn't an electric vehicle that suits your needs.

If you can't afford the vehicle you want... get out there and earn more money!

Why the fuck am I having to talk to you like *i'm* the conservative here?

It's an opportunity cost, not an actual one.

lmao that george thinks he's paying more taxes because of a tax credit someone claimed. as if he's above claiming interest tax deductions on his house or passed up on child tax credits when his kids were under 17.

[decay]

Because I am being charged. Your tax credit comes out of my pocket in the form of higher taxes.
But on second thought you may be right as the fed is monetizing our debt, so, in effect, the money is free. What a wonderful world

we should do a graph to answer the question:

"how many of my tax dollars went to subsidize purchase of teslas, vs how many of my tax dollars were spent on the F35 fighter"

400B so far to get that bird online, and it's not as good as what it's replacing...
tesla's entire market cap is 30B, and we didn't subsidize all of that.

but your second thought is right... we're leaving china holding the bag on this shit anyway, why are we even worrying about it? :)

[BraveUlysses]

Its not even that the tax credit is only for tesla, its for the first 50k electric cars produced by each auto maker. They only miss out if they don't make an electric car or the car they offer doesn't have a high enough battery capacity.

[decay]

you are right, i should have said "purchase of electric cars".

[gwb72tii]

It's an opportunity cost, not an actual one.

lmao that george thinks he's paying more taxes because of a tax credit someone claimed. as if he's above claiming interest tax deductions on his house or passed up on child tax credits when his kids were under 17.

Some day may you actually pay enough in taxes that it hurts, and you care

The tax credit is paid for in other taxes that are collected.

[gwb72tii]

we should do a graph to answer the question:

"how many of my tax dollars went to subsidize purchase of teslas, vs how many of my tax dollars were spent on the F35 fighter"

400B so far to get that bird online, and it's not as good as what it's replacing...
tesla's entire market cap is 30B, and we didn't subsidize all of that.

but your second thought is right... we're leaving china holding the bag on this shit anyway, why are we even worrying about it? :)

Defense spending is probably one of the few types of government spending that's justified. You can argue whether we should develop the F35 or the new stealth destroyers, but the government is responsible for the nation's security.

What Norway does with vat percentages, and what we do with tax credits, is specifically for influencing your buy decisions. The govt makes up for the credit with higher tax rates elsewhere. It comes from me, and presumably you too.

There is no free lunch.

[mrsleeve]

This thread has gotten funny, honest to goodness funny...

[Wschnitz]

I think the biggest joke is that people are painting musk as stealing tax money with these subsidies.

Any car manufacture has the ability to apply for these same benefits...

[mrsleeve]

Never implied he is stealing, its just between Solar City, space x and Tesla he has absorbed nearly 5 BILLION in federal subsides, thats all. And what has come from all that investment not a whole lot.

[Wschnitz]

Never implied he is stealing, its just between Solar City, space x and Tesla he has absorbed nearly 5 BILLION in federal subsides, thats all. And what has come from all that investment not a whole lot.

25,000 high quality jobs. Income from having arguably the best Electric car manufacturer being based in the US. Potentially more affordable satellite launches for the military. (Atlas V/Delta IV launches "officially" cost somewhere in the realm of 150-250 million a launch.)

I mean we can talk shit all day about how Government subsides don't pay off, Should we bring up the cattle industry subsidies? Estimates put it in the 20-30 Billion a year into farming and cattle. Sure we end up with cheaper meat and food in the grocery isle, but when those industries loose massive percentages of workers over the years, you gotta think we are plugging a dam with bubble gum.

[BraveUlysses]

Never implied he is stealing, its just between Solar City, space x and Tesla he has absorbed nearly 5 BILLION in federal subsides, thats all. And what has come from all that investment not a whole lot.

cite your sources.

are contracts from NASA subsidies in your mind?

The new re-usable rocket tests are privately funded.

[mrsleeve]

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html

I trust the LA times is sufficient, and NO that's not including the 5.5B in space X contracts to NASA and the Air Force.

Correction: I should have stated Govt not federal Subsides, since its been at least a year since I read this article and was going form memory, the 4.9B figure includes a lot of state of CA money as well

[gwb72tii]

Never implied he is stealing, its just between Solar City, space x and Tesla he has absorbed nearly 5 BILLION in federal subsides, thats all. And what has come from all that investment not a whole lot.

the real genius of Musk is seeing thru the maze of tax rules/regulations/subsidies and seeing a market to exploit and grow wealthy from