Let's talk about anarchy!

[mrsleeve]

Or it means your making concections that don't acctually exist to make your argument work inside your own convoluted, nonsensical logic circle to justify your argument in your own head

[decay]

...it's a good thing there aren't rules about grammar, spelling, and sentence structure around here

[mrsleeve]

Phone post......

# of fucks given
.
.
.
.
000.0000000

[decay]

likewise, i give zero fucks that you're questioning my logic.

i am not from rural montana, i live in downtown san francisco (as of monday).

i *see* the tent cities and the broken tempered glass from car windows on my walk to work.

my taxes are higher than yours because high-desert areas of california are apparently great places to build prisons.

that bit about "sufficiently isolated" *absolutely* applies to you.

[marshallnoise]

Delusional decay strikes again.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[decay]

i like how once again the rightists have no actual supporting argument- just "anyone who disagrees with me must be crazy"

i swear, even facebook is a better place to find political debate than this shithole anymore

[marshallnoise]

You clearly aren't interested in seeing the truth about why your taxes are high and then float a bullshit answer as "reason."

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[decay]

...oh my fucking god, i cannot deal with how simple your brain is.

there can be more than one contributing factor to a given situation!

i never said that lots of prisons are the *only* reason my taxes are higher.

[Powling]

i like how once again the rightists have no actual supporting argument- just "anyone who disagrees with me must be crazy"

i swear, even facebook is a better place to find political debate than this shithole anymore

I'm pretty sure you can block specific usernames on here so you can't see their posts anymore...might be a good solution to at least preventing you from seeing these morons anymore.

EDIT: Here you go.

[decay]

I'm pretty sure you can block specific usernames on here so you can't see their posts anymore...might be a good solution to at least preventing you from seeing these morons anymore.

EDIT: Here you go.

yeah, i tried that with marshall.

other trolls started quoting him at me to get around the ignore.

[Mediumrarechicken]

your continuous refusal to see the connection between hunger/desperation/homelessness and crime/prison-industrial complex doesn't mean it doesn't actually exist- it just means that you are either willfully ignorant of it or sufficiently isolated from it.

Dude a soup kitchen isn't going to help keep DaAllen out of prison because he was a drug dealer. Sure a soup kitchen could keep some people out of jail, but the number is small. Again you continue to assume about me, dont assume my whole stance on something I wrote 1 or 2 sentences on.

[decay]

Dude a soup kitchen isn't going to help keep DaAllen out of prison because he was a drug dealer.

it really couldn't be any clearer that i am not talking about drug dealers. the issue being addressed is the homeless addicts they create.

Sure a soup kitchen could keep some people out of jail, but the number is small.

soup kitchen is one example of community-based action. again, the difference here is that these are local, non-government organizations. that's why it doesn't at all make sense to me when i hear these ideas called "socialism"- you guys are nitpicking my definition when that term clearly refers to government-run efforts.

beyond that, i don't get the objections to such actions. the problem you all have with socialism is that it's compulsory, right? i dislike that for the exact same reason- as you'd fucking expect of an anarchist. you don't want to participate in socio-anarchist community programs? fine, don't, but remember that choice you made when it's your shit that gets stolen.

finally, is "well it doesn't fix the WHOLE problem" a good reason to not do something?

Again you continue to assume about me, dont assume my whole stance on something I wrote 1 or 2 sentences on.

...do you not see that that's what you, marshall, and sleeve have been doing to me throughout the course of this thread?

[mbonder]

when I'm old enough to retire I won't need social security, unless the stock market fails complelety. As it sits right now I'm putting around 15 to 20% of my income into 401k and other investments, that's on top of the $6 an hour that my company puts into a 401k.

But you'll still collect Social Security won't you? Which is the irony that I was getting at, most people who scream bloody murder about socialist programs are also the ones that scream bloody murder if those programs are taken away. And don't fall back into the argument that you paid into it so you should collect it. The reality is that if you retire at 65 and live to 90 (which is becoming more the norm these days, especially for people that are at least in the middle class as you seem to be), you'll collect way more in Social Security than you ever paid into it.

Social Security is only one part of several socialist style programs that the US has in place. More importantly to many people, especially in the final 5 years of life is Medicare. Unless you manage to save millions (maybe even 10's of millions the way medical costs keep rising) in your 401k, you'll never be able to pay your medical expenses at the end of your life. This is pure reality, there's no way around it. My grandfather was the most frugal man I've ever met, saving his entire life, never traveling, never buying anything that wasn't necessary, making all of his own meals, but when my grandmother and then he ended up in a nursing home because of health issues that couldn't be taken care of by family and they needed 24/7 care, his life savings of 40 years disappeared in 3 years. Without Medicare they would have been out in the cold.

My point is that not all socialism is bad, and in fact, the rise of capitalism has made some measure of socialism necessary (example above) as the costs associated with necessities far outstrip anyone's ability to pay for them (except for the superrich).

As for the other topic-connection between downtrodden areas and crime, I'll comment on that one as well.

Let's start out with the basic premise that every person has needs of some sort. There are basic necessities such as food, water, shelter. In our society, because of the way the economy is set up (capitalism) there are opportunities to provide oneself with these necessities by working. Companies set up shop in areas where they find two things: the necessary materials for production and the means of production (the workers). If an area doesn't provide both of these then the company seeks out other locations for their base of operations. Throw into this mix as well the attempt by most corporations to create production at the lowest possible cost and some areas of the country (or the country as a whole) become undesirable locations for business.

Some areas, deemed undesirable for business then don't provide people with the means of providing the necessities of life for themselves. This still leaves them with a need that is unfulfilled. Alternate avenues for fulfillment are followed (usually criminal-drug dealing, theft, etc), because people still need certain things in their lives. Right or wrong, many people in this situation (having an unfulfilled need) seek out the easiest remedy, which is often criminal, because you can make $500 selling cocaine a hell of a lot quicker than you can flipping burgers.

So eliminate the "need" and you'll eliminate a lot of the crime. How you do that is a topic that is hotly contested and I'm not getting into my views in that regard.

I think that's my longest post here yet!

[marshallnoise]

Social security is a socialist program. But it's money taken away as savings for future use. It was not supposed to be a general fund item. So demanding money back that was promised back to you as savings only makes sense. It's not support for socialism, it's getting stolen cash back.

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[Mediumrarechicken]

But you'll still collect Social Security won't you? Which is the irony that I was getting at, most people who scream bloody murder about socialist programs are also the ones that scream bloody murder if those programs are taken away. And don't fall back into the argument that you paid into it so you should collect it. The reality is that if you retire at 65 and live to 90 (which is becoming more the norm these days, especially for people that are at least in the middle class as you seem to be), you'll collect way more in Social Security than you ever paid into it.

Social Security is only one part of several socialist style programs that the US has in place. More importantly to many people, especially in the final 5 years of life is Medicare. Unless you manage to save millions (maybe even 10's of millions the way medical costs keep rising) in your 401k, you'll never be able to pay your medical expenses at the end of your life. This is pure reality, there's no way around it. My grandfather was the most frugal man I've ever met, saving his entire life, never traveling, never buying anything that wasn't necessary, making all of his own meals, but when my grandmother and then he ended up in a nursing home because of health issues that couldn't be taken care of by family and they needed 24/7 care, his life savings of 40 years disappeared in 3 years. Without Medicare they would have been out in the cold.

My point is that not all socialism is bad, and in fact, the rise of capitalism has made some measure of socialism necessary (example above) as the costs associated with necessities far outstrip anyone's ability to pay for them (except for the superrich).

As for the other topic-connection between downtrodden areas and crime, I'll comment on that one as well.

Let's start out with the basic premise that every person has needs of some sort. There are basic necessities such as food, water, shelter. In our society, because of the way the economy is set up (capitalism) there are opportunities to provide oneself with these necessities by working. Companies set up shop in areas where they find two things: the necessary materials for production and the means of production (the workers). If an area doesn't provide both of these then the company seeks out other locations for their base of operations. Throw into this mix as well the attempt by most corporations to create production at the lowest possible cost and some areas of the country (or the country as a whole) become undesirable locations for business.

Some areas, deemed undesirable for business then don't provide people with the means of providing the necessities of life for themselves. This still leaves them with a need that is unfulfilled. Alternate avenues for fulfillment are followed (usually criminal-drug dealing, theft, etc), because people still need certain things in their lives. Right or wrong, many people in this situation (having an unfulfilled need) seek out the easiest remedy, which is often criminal, because you can make $500 selling cocaine a hell of a lot quicker than you can flipping burgers.

So eliminate the "need" and you'll eliminate a lot of the crime. How you do that is a topic that is hotly contested and I'm not getting into my views in that regard.

I think that's my longest post here yet!

Why would I collect something I don't need?
I really don't care about getting what I paid into social security, i mean it would be cool to get an extra 1,200 bucks or whatever, but I'm not going to collect it.