Any other ways to increase experience level?

[bimmerphile]

I hear good things about Skip Barber ;)

[eric1855]

]
Sweet. Dates? More info? Like registerstation.....

http://www.autocross.com/evolution/

[Charlie]

Borrowing $$ for driving events is almost as dumb as using extra tuition $$ for mod's. It doesnt matter if you're getting free school or not. If you cant pay to play out of pocket, dont even think about it.

I disagree. If he's talking about borrowing more student loans since tuition is paid for I see no problem with doing that provided it is done smartly. Student loans have rather low interest rate, and, incidentally, you can write most or all of that interest off when you are in repayment. Totally beats working part time for crappy wages while you are in school. And in fact, borrowing more money from school is better in my oppinion since you can concentrate on important things, like studying, going to DE events, or autocrosses or even paying for mods. Now, doing so with revolving credit lines, ie CCs is very dangerous and is not smart.

Schools are your best bet, dont bother with Auto-X where you are out there on your own. You wont learn proper techniques trying to teach yourself, and then later you'll have to re-learn.

Speaking about autocrosses, I also disagree. You must have been unlucky with the clubs that you've autocrosses with or pissed everybody off with "I know it all" attitude so that no one would help you. In my experience, there's always a novice orientation program, as well as extensive mentoring and tutoring available to those that are interested and willing. In fact, there are also autocross schools available locally and nationally where you can actually learn how to control the car. By no means am I saying that you aren't learning at DE events. I'm merely suggesting that it is much better to start learning at low to moderate speeds and then go on to high speed events.Last but not least it is a whole lot cheaper to autocross that to go to track events and since money is a consideration that may as well be considered.

As far as other venues almost all other car clubs have some sorts of events that they do. Just do a search online for local Porsche, Corvette, Audi etc clubs.

My whole take on this is as follows: Autox is a great place for seat time, the only problem is, many novice drivers will learn a whole lot of bad habits from this, especially depending on how the autox course is set up. I had to (hell, still am) unlearn a lot of the "gate to gate" viewing mentality and look much further ahead to help me become smooth. I think that really is a lot of my beef with it as an instructional tool. I see a lot of guys start out, run 4-5 autoxs, and then go slap on a set of R compounds and go out there hacking away at the wheel with the tires masking the mistakes. This creates a whole host of bad habits that are very dangerous to replicate in an open track environment. Getting twitchy and killing a couple of cones is a lot less painful then killing tires & armco. My personal recomendation is to do one or two track schools first, get the basic mechanics down, and then practice it in an autox environment, you'll at least have a clear(er) idea of what you're doing wrong.

As for the loan thing, I'm not a big fan of wracking up debt for "fun" activities. That's one of those routes where you can get yourself into big trouble very quickly. I actually have a personal rule to not put any "mod" parts or track related stuff on a credit card, because I know what sort of a pandora's box I would open up if I did that. Granted, this does cut down on a lot of the "cool" parts like a lot of guys I see on the forums, but at least I know I won't be paying for that set of "mad tite" kopis 7 years from now.

-Charlie

[Rob]

I hate to take out a loan to go racing and then stuff a car...

[Charlie]

]
Sweet. Dates? More info? Like registerstation.....

http://www.autocross.com/evolution/

Depending on whether or not the Cinci dates conflict with the NASA Mid Ohio HPDE (typically early april), I'm gonna try and get in to the Evo school down there, Eric, you gonna be in that area around then?

I figure I've been doing the autox thing for long enough, I should finally learn how to do it properly.

-Charlie

[rwh11385]

Well, Charlie, I like a lot of your points and wouldn't like to develop any bad habits on my own for Auto-X, and there should be the Hoosier track event in April as there was last year (the one I was signed up for, but rear subframe bushings benched me for).

After that, local SCCA Auto-X seem like pretty cheap ways to grow more comfortable in my car, I guess. But then round out the summer with one or two more driving schools, hopefully.

I don't want to be paying for my mods I won't appreciate later down the road, and have given into some things like Euroh parts but primarly I've cut myself off of thinking of modifying the engine.....as that road never ends and just empties pockets. Having a suspension that can pass tech is important though. ;) Just suspension, and maybe eventually fixing some cosmetics items.....or not.

And in time between schools and driving, I might try to get an internship at Eli Lilly or Roche Diagnostics, two local medical companies that I could possibly work for in the end......if these car dreams don't pan out (Industrial Management with Chemistry Minor is my likely path). Eli Lilly is the one that makes Prozac, and a friend's dad is the VP @ Roche. Based on the $13 an hour or whatever it is for college interns, I think my playthings might be well funded.

[eric1855]

]
Sweet. Dates? More info? Like registerstation.....

http://www.autocross.com/evolution/

Depending on whether or not the Cinci dates conflict with the NASA Mid Ohio HPDE (typically early april), I'm gonna try and get in to the Evo school down there, Eric, you gonna be in that area around then?

I figure I've been doing the autox thing for long enough, I should finally learn how to do it properly.

-Charlie

Yeah if Cincy SCCA hosts an Evo School this year I will be there. I was in the one last year in their Phase 2 school. I have gone to at least two Evo Schools the past two years and just keep getting faster. if not for the instruction then the all day of seat time.

But there is also something to be said of driving your car to your fullest, then having Danny Popp get in it, cold, and destroying your best time.

[eric1855]

Also, just to add some points to the discussion.

1. Credit is bad, avoid it at all costs, and save it for emergencies.

2. AutoX is fun, cheap, safe and readily available. I know where I live there is no road racing unless I go to Putnam or Mid-Ohio, both of which are close to 4 hours away. I am within 2 hours of 4 SCCA Regions. I typically go to an AutoX 3 weekends out of the month from March to November. Its only $15-$25 so it is alot cheaper than Road Racing and there are no tire walls to go plowing into.

When I drove my WRX I was vehemently against road racing it, as I refused to track a car I still owed money on (even though I caved a few times when I lived in LA and went to Buttonwillow). Now that I got the e30, I might start hitting up some driving events, but AutoX is still the first love, I just find it more entertaining for the money spent and competition involved than HPDE's.

I think it is best to try both, and see which you like and prefer. I am willing to bet though that if you are a student you won't be able to afford the $200+ a weekend it is to road race that often. AutoX is a great alternative. Don't smack it until you have tried it.

Until you can afford to take your car home smashed on a flatbed, you should avoid road racing.

[rwh11385]

Now you have an E30, come up to Putnam for Bluegrass Bimmer's driving school in June or whatever.

[eric1855]

Now you have an E30, come up to Putnam for Bluegrass Bimmer's driving school in June or whatever.

I was planning on it :D

[DBurke]

I hate to take out a loan to go racing and then stuff a car...

Happens all the time, it'd probably average out to weekly at the least. Yes I'm talking about track days and racing. Many SS and T1/2 cars are all owned by the bank.

[SpencerM3]

I didnt read the whole thread but I get the jist that you want some track experience.

Best bang for the buck is kart racing. You will get the most seat time, and become a much better driver than anything else in the "price range." This is wheel 2 wheel racing, not driving in circles by yourself or dodging cones.

In the last year i've been racing karts, i've got more seat time than the last 4 years of tracking and auto-xing my M3.

www.ekartingnews.com is a good resource if you are interested.

[65Matt]

Robert, does your college get involved in Formula SAE or other such projects?

http://www.fsae.com/

You will learn ALOT about racing and you'll get to meet alot of people in the industry.

[sparticus]

Sorry but I haven't read all the threads but have you tried your local BMW chapter? I use to have a late model Mustang and lived a couple of miles from Laguna Seca. I joined the local Shelby club in the early 90's and was able to club race at Laguna and Sears Point(Infineon). I think back then you paid $200 for 2 days track use. they did full inspections and had 4 diff grps. Grp 1 had beginners all the way to Grp4, full bread shelby GT350, Panteras even a Nascar. The Shelby Club also invited the Ferrari Club everytime. I know what your thinking "....I want to really race and learn something". There's a guy named Kevin Buckner(theRacersGroup) who I use to see club race his Porsche911 at Laguna and Sears. Now this guy Really races and won the Daytona24 outright a couple of yrs ago. Ck this guy out also at www.nsxfiles.com. you can see where he started from with his street car. He also just started racing goKarts recently. Funny website also....

[rwh11385]

Well, obviously I know what is going on with the local chapter. I was just curious if there were any other methods.

There is a single driving school each year and I'll be doing that.


We have formula SAE, but I think the team is engineers-only, but I will look into it.