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**UNHCLL** · 10-22-2004, 01:35 PM

You need to re-eval.

You've listened to E. Lukas to much.... life is NOT about who you know. What you know is 1000x more important than who you know. Who you know can get you the job, but if you dont know anything... you wont keep that job long.

Borrowing $$ for driving events is almost as dumb as using extra tuition $$ for mod's. It doesnt matter if you're getting free school or not. If you cant pay to play out of pocket, dont even think about it.

SCCA Schools
SCDA Schools
PCA Schools
NASA Schools

notice a trend? Schools are your best bet, dont bother with Auto-X where you are out there on your own. You wont learn proper techniques trying to teach yourself, and then later you'll have to re-learn.

on that note, not trying to squash your dreams, just giving insight from an outside view based on my own experiences and plenty of identical convo's I've had with other older drivers.

HTH,

**nando** · 10-22-2004, 01:49 PM

I think auto-x is still valuable experience, but really a driving school will teach you the most. hopefully I'll have a 5 speed before next season's schools! :twisted:

**rwh11385** · 10-22-2004, 02:06 PM

Actually, I haven't talked to Lukas in a while....it's just a fact of life that networking does help, and will help get an interview, or find a partner, or whatever.

If I want to get my management degree and move into the industry somehow, no matter where in it, it will pay off much more to have experience personally, and also to know people in the industry, instead of blindly jumping in. This is my mindset. Of course learning is important, but also getting a foot in where I want to dance is vital too.

The way I see it, gaining experience and meeting people (more than just people I meet at CCA meetings, etc, or through other functions.....like hanging out with other "car guys") will be as important in steps towards my career as education itself. College is much more than just the classes you take, or so I hear.

Thus, spending $ on track events as one would tution can be justified. But don't worry Chris, most of this will likely be repaid this summer. Like last year, all the repairs from the previous car + purchase of my E30 + repairs done to it was a large debt, but I ended up getting it all repaid by the end of the summer. Like $2000+ total or somewhere.
But my main concern is not letting being a college student hold me back here. I'll still try to be budget concious, and save money.....but if I am to sit idle and worry about borrowing $, I may find it hard to get invovled later.....

So, even if I really cannot pay to play out of pocket, as I am in school and not working, aside from a few hours every couple of weeks, I won't let that stop me. I can probably earn the $$$ during the summer, but I don't want to be limited by that, or rely on that neccessarily.

I'll do Auto-X just to get more car control under my belt, and be more familiar with my car, but I will hopefully focus on schools.

I don't know if I can roll with the PCA, but I can probably look and see if local NASA events are open to me, and Audi Car club has driving schools as well locally, which I can probably be a part of.

on that note, not trying to squash your dreams, just giving insight from an outside view based on my own experiences and plenty of identical convo's I've had with other older drivers.

No, you've for the most part provided a realistic outlook, and I appreciate it.

Although I don't neccessarily need or want to get into BMWCCA racing or anything serious, my goal is to gain a better appeciation and understanding. I'm not sure what exactly kind of company I want to create, but I do want it involved with cars somehow. The point of getting experience myself is how am I to provide services or products to people invovled with something I am not personally accustomed to.

In addition, meeting people may eventually open doors I will follow to my ultimate place. Just being out there may let me know of a open position somewhere, or of an opportunity

What I got from you Chris is basically don't waste a lot of time on Auto-X and focus on schools. I think maybe there is NASA events locally, and I will certainly try to take part in Audi driving schools as well. And then there are regoinal BMW driving schools.

p.s. any difference between a HPDE and a driving school event??

**dsp83gti** · 10-22-2004, 07:37 PM

Evolution Driving School - look for a school close to you

Page not found – Equipe Rapide SCC

http://autocross.com/evolution/

See you on course.

Robert Foster / '88 BMW 325is - STX
Wichita Region SCCA - http://www.wichitascca.org/

**Charlie** · 10-23-2004, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by UNHCLL

Borrowing $$ for driving events is almost as dumb as using extra tuition $$ for mod's. It doesnt matter if you're getting free school or not. If you cant pay to play out of pocket, dont even think about it.

Schools are your best bet, dont bother with Auto-X where you are out there on your own. You wont learn proper techniques trying to teach yourself, and then later you'll have to re-learn.

I don't think I could say this any better.

There are plenty of groups out there that put on track schools, it's your job to go out there and find them.

http://www.trackschedule.com/ - Is your friend, it is however, not the be all end all. Go out and find these things, go by word of mouth. Get a job and do as many schools as you can, nothing replaces seat time. Quit blowing every dollar of free cash on the latest "forum mod" and spend it on the thing that matters: the driver.

-Charlie

**alex** · 10-23-2004, 08:55 AM

Originally posted by UNHCLL

Borrowing $$ for driving events is almost as dumb as using extra tuition $$ for mod's. It doesnt matter if you're getting free school or not. If you cant pay to play out of pocket, dont even think about it.

I disagree. If he's talking about borrowing more student loans since tuition is paid for I see no problem with doing that provided it is done smartly. Student loans have rather low interest rate, and, incidentally, you can write most or all of that interest off when you are in repayment. Totally beats working part time for crappy wages while you are in school. And in fact, borrowing more money from school is better in my oppinion since you can concentrate on important things, like studying, going to DE events, or autocrosses or even paying for mods. Now, doing so with revolving credit lines, ie CCs is very dangerous and is not smart.

Originally posted by UNHCLL

Schools are your best bet, dont bother with Auto-X where you are out there on your own. You wont learn proper techniques trying to teach yourself, and then later you'll have to re-learn.

Speaking about autocrosses, I also disagree. You must have been unlucky with the clubs that you've autocrosses with or pissed everybody off with "I know it all" attitude so that no one would help you. In my experience, there's always a novice orientation program, as well as extensive mentoring and tutoring available to those that are interested and willing. In fact, there are also autocross schools available locally and nationally where you can actually learn how to control the car. By no means am I saying that you aren't learning at DE events. I'm merely suggesting that it is much better to start learning at low to moderate speeds and then go on to high speed events.Last but not least it is a whole lot cheaper to autocross that to go to track events and since money is a consideration that may as well be considered.

As far as other venues almost all other car clubs have some sorts of events that they do. Just do a search online for local Porsche, Corvette, Audi etc clubs.

**UNHCLL** · 10-23-2004, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by alex

I disagree. If he's talking about borrowing more student loans since tuition is paid for I see no problem with doing that provided it is done smartly. Student loans have rather low interest rate, and, incidentally, you can write most or all of that interest off when you are in repayment. Totally beats working part time for crappy wages while you are in school. And in fact, borrowing more money from school is better in my oppinion since you can concentrate on important things, like studying, going to DE events, or autocrosses or even paying for mods. Now, doing so with revolving credit lines, ie CCs is very dangerous and is not smart.

Yes school loans have a lower interest rate. However I see no value in wracking up excessive unecessary debt early in life. If he's comfortable with that, go for it I guess. I dont see it as a valuable change or asset to his potential career. But, I'm not dictataing what he does, just offering my opinion.

Originally posted by alex

Speaking about autocrosses, I also disagree. You must have been unlucky with the clubs that you've autocrosses with or pissed everybody off with "I know it all" attitude so that no one would help you. In my experience, there's always a novice orientation program, as well as extensive mentoring and tutoring available to those that are interested and willing. In fact, there are also autocross schools available locally and nationally where you can actually learn how to control the car. By no means am I saying that you aren't learning at DE events. I'm merely suggesting that it is much better to start learning at low to moderate speeds and then go on to high speed events.Last but not least it is a whole lot cheaper to autocross that to go to track events and since money is a consideration that may as well be considered.

As far as other venues almost all other car clubs have some sorts of events that they do. Just do a search online for local Porsche, Corvette, Audi etc clubs.

I instruct the advanced saftey skills school with the BMW CCA. I've been doing this since I was 15.5 years old. (21 in December) Yes, before I could leagally drive I was teaching people how to threshold brake, threshold brake & turn, High speed lane change, etc.

By nature I am a quiet and reserved person, one who will listen and ask questions rather than thinking I know best. I've been instructed by numerous people in Auto-X courses. However, I will be the FIRST to admit, I need a LOT more practice before I feel comfortable instructing people on Auto-X or on-Track. I've never onced turned down offers for help and instruction. When I go to the track, my ego gets checked at the entrance gate.... I've seen enough ego-induced accidents to see the value of that.

Maybe Auto-X is more prevalent and heavily attended in the midwest then it is here in the north-east. I can only speak from my personal experience.

As for the working for crappy wages comment... I'm jaded there. I'm a partner in a company and make 2-3x what the average college student makes. I dont work during school, which heavily influences my decisions about expenses and how to best manage them.

Good points either way, the benefit of public opinion is that you'll get varied ones Robbert! Take what you feel best applies to you and go from there.

**rwh11385** · 10-23-2004, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by UNHCLL

Yes school loans have a lower interest rate. However I see no value in wracking up excessive unecessary debt early in life. If he's comfortable with that, go for it I guess. I dont see it as a valuable change or asset to his potential career. But, I'm not dictataing what he does, just offering my opinion.

Alex, I am glad someone else is able to sort of see it my way of thinking.

And Chris, I won't be racking up that much excessive debt, probably spending $1000 winter break :shock: and 3 schools ~! $1000 this summer (probably 3 will be sufficient to give a good headstart, for this year). and then probably another grand in repairs, other mods, and auto-x shit. But then again, I'll likely make that or more during the summer. So I'll come out even, but it's just not I'm going to be handicapped by not having the $ in pocket right now. I know may be some more expensive items to replace, or modifications, or other costs, but the point is I am ready to go temporarily in debt for my "other education."

Like the last year and a half, I had to borrow $ to repair my former car + buying my E30 + repairing the broken rocker arm + other shit, and that debt and monthly credit card bills were over $4000 totalled together, but I was able to pay it off by the end of the summer (which also factors in working throughout Senior year in HS though).

And although I cannot convince you that this is neccessary, I believe it is. Personal experience will likely be a very important factor and asset in helping me progress.

Chris, how would you feel about someone trying to open a performance shop and have no real experience or first-hand knowledge of tracks or driving events? Although I am not sure what business I want to run in the future, gaining experience should be important in expanding me. Actually, depending on what course I am taken on, who knows what I might do. But regardless, I do not want not having $ saved stop me from learning. I would stand very well to be broadened by track experiences, etc.

So is the final answer there is not really a good way to gain experience outside of track schools and Auto-X? Just making sure.

**Rob** · 10-23-2004, 06:28 PM

experience doing what, pooping? too many damn paragraphs in this thread?

**UNHCLL** · 10-23-2004, 06:30 PM

do whatever floats your boat bro.

you take your path, i'll take mine. my path just doesnt involve debt that I *think* I can pay off by the end of the summer.

But it seems it doesnt matter what I say, you've made up your mind. good luck! :D

**rwh11385** · 10-23-2004, 07:24 PM

Originally posted by UNHCLL

do whatever floats your boat bro.

you take your path, i'll take mine. my path just doesnt involve debt that I *think* I can pay off by the end of the summer.

But it seems it doesnt matter what I say, you've made up your mind. good luck! :D

I like to poop.

Chris, the point is it doesn't matter with not paying it off by the end of the summer. I'll be okay with that. Sure, I'll try, but compared to my roommates for example.....I'll be way ahead of the game. My roommates are spending $28K a year to go to the same school, same place as me obviously. They're going to be in the hole. I'm just barely going to be, if I don't get out.

I've always had my mind made up about my idea. :P I was asking about any other venues than schools or Auto-X. ;)

thanks

**Rob** · 10-23-2004, 07:27 PM

street racing....

**eric1855** · 10-23-2004, 08:14 PM

The most experience and seat time for your money will be an Evolution Driving School. It is an SCCA Sponsored Auto-X Driving school.

For $200 you get upwards of 60 runs on a 30-35 second course within-car national champion driver instruction.

I help host one here in Louisville every year and out of every driving school, track event, HPDE, etc...I have done it was by far the most educational.

**rwh11385** · 10-23-2004, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by eric1855

The most experience and seat time for your money will be an Evolution Driving School. It is an SCCA Sponsored Auto-X Driving school.

For $200 you get upwards of 60 runs on a 30-35 second course within-car national champion driver instruction.

I help host one here in Louisville every year and out of every driving school, track event, HPDE, etc...I have done it was by far the most educational.

Sweet. Dates? More info? Like registerstation.....

street racing....

Sweetness x 10!.....I mean !!!!11!!! yeaz. Driftorz around the blind cornorz!!!11!!!11

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Any other ways to increase experience level?

Any other ways to increase experience level?

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