any1 using a Z3 steering rack? if so...

[nmlss2006]

Yes this would be good: as I was saying earlier, it would be very useful to know actual rail travel in mm per turn. I was also under the distinct impression that *none* of the E30/E36/Z3 racks were anything but linear, but I won't hold that as gospel.

[e30pq]

Have you actually measured it, or is this based off of feel? My 6/95 M3 rack (realoem shows this as still being the 95 model year part number) doesn't feel progressive. Actually, it feels identical to my 3/97 M3 rack in my track car. They are both ~3.2 turns. I'll have to measure travel per rotation between the two and post my findings to show if either is progressive or linear.

As you know, Zionsville sells all of these different racks to modify E30's.

I suggest you give them a ring to confirm for yourself. Those guys know this stuff inside and out.

I'm not affiliated with them but I have used their parts on both my E30 autocross car and my E30 club race car.

[JGood]

As you know, Zionsville sells all of these different racks to modify E30's.

I suggest you give them a ring to confirm for yourself. Those guys know this stuff inside and out.

I'm not affiliated with them but I have used their parts on both my E30 autocross car and my E30 club race car.

To be honest, I'd rather test my own racks with date stamps from the assembly line, then go off of second hand info. I've heard plenty of misinformation from big name vendors.

[e30pq]

To be honest, I'd rather test my own racks with date stamps from the assembly line, then go off of second hand info. I've heard plenty of misinformation from big name vendors.

That's true. Why learn from those who specialize in E30 upgrades and do this all day long.

You probably know more about this stuff than they do.

[JGood]

That's true. Why learn from those who specialize in E30 upgrades and do this all day long.

You probably know more about this stuff than they do.

Yeah, fuck it. I've already been given wrong info from companies who specialize in e30's, but why not just go ahead and trust them anyway? Instead of measuring my own racks sitting in front of me and finding out for sure. Yeah, they could very well provide accurate info, but why would I call them, waste there time, and receive second hand info as opposed to just measuring my own racks? If it was a debatable issue, sure, I'd love their input, but it's a simple measurement.

[Wh33lhop]

That's true. Why learn from those who specialize in E30 upgrades and do this all day long.

You probably know more about this stuff than they do.

Yeah because I'm sure everyone there has taken apart a rack of every type, taken calipers to the teeth at different positions, recorded and analyzed their data.

I've had a guy give me the "whatever, don't listen to me, I just sell the things all day long" when I had official product specs and months of my own research backing me up and he was clearly talking out of his ass. I'll stick to first-hand info, thanks. You can listen to the people trying to sell the product.

[e30pq]

Yeah because I'm sure everyone there has taken apart a rack of every type, taken calipers to the teeth at different positions, recorded and analyzed their data.

I've had a guy give me the "whatever, don't listen to me, I just sell the things all day long" when I had official product specs and months of my own research backing me up and he was clearly talking out of his ass. I'll stick to first-hand info, thanks. You can listen to the people trying to sell the product.

Okay, we'll also put you down in the column of "people who know it all".

Thanks for playing.

[JGood]

Okay, we'll also put you down in the column of "people who know it all".

Thanks for playing.

What is your deal? You come on a forum full of DIYers and tell them not to take a simple measurement of a part in front of them, but instead call a company who can tell you the measurement, and to just trust them, even if your experience differs. What would you say, if: I called Zionsville and they told me my 97 M3 rack is progressive. But I measured it, and it's 100% linear. I know the original owner of the car and know the rack is straight from the factory, so there is no discrepancy. Then, other people check theirs and see that indeed, they are linear. What would your explanation be for this? This exact situation has happened to me for other issues. So why would I continue to do something so stupid and lazy? Oh, that's the American way. Neither me nor wh33lhop are "know it all's". If we were, We'd say, I know it's not linear, I can feel it! Instead we are willing to measure it and have proof. This is non-debatable proof. Hearing something from a company that's sells parts is not proof.

[Wh33lhop]

Okay, we'll also put you down in the column of "people who know it all".

Thanks for playing.

You still look like an idiot. Try again.

[e30pq]

What is your deal? You come on a forum full of DIYers and tell them not to take a simple measurement of a part in front of them, but instead call a company who can tell you the measurement, and to just trust them, even if your experience differs. What would you say, if: I called Zionsville and they told me my 97 M3 rack is progressive. But I measured it, and it's 100% linear. I know the original owner of the car and know the rack is straight from the factory, so there is no discrepancy. Then, other people check theirs and see that indeed, they are linear. What would your explanation be for this? This exact situation has happened to me for other issues. So why would I continue to do something so stupid and lazy? Oh, that's the American way. Neither me nor wh33lhop are "know it all's". If we were, We'd say, I know it's not linear, I can feel it! Instead we are willing to measure it and have proof. This is non-debatable proof. Hearing something from a company that's sells parts is not proof.

I own both a Z3 rack and a 95 M3 rack in two different E30's.

When I speak about either of these racks I'm speaking from my experience. I'm not telling you about "some other guys car" or "something I read on the web".

I agree in DIY but I also think that sometimes it helps to get other opinions from people who do this stuff for their day job. That's all I'm saying.

[JGood]

I own both a Z3 rack and a 95 M3 rack in two different E30's.

When I speak about either of these racks I'm speaking from my experience. I'm not telling you about "some other guys car" or "something I read on the web".

I agree in DIY but I also think that sometimes it helps to get other opinions from people who do this stuff for their day job. That's all I'm saying.

My whole point in responding to you in the first place was asking if you measured your findings or if this is what you believe due to the way they feel?

Yes it helps to get opinions, on something that an opinion matters on. What is there to be opinionated about measuring a steering rack? It's linear or it's not. It's a measurement. Why go through a company instead of measuring what's sitting right in front of you? That makes absolutely no sense at all. If I didn't have the rack, yeah, I'd call around and ask.

P.S. You didn't answer my question... What would you do if they gave us incorrect info?

Nevermind. I'm going to go sit in the corner in time-out for being a "know it all."

[Wh33lhop]

I own both a Z3 rack and a 95 M3 rack in two different E30's.

When I speak about either of these racks I'm speaking from my experience. I'm not telling you about "some other guys car" or "something I read on the web".

I agree in DIY but I also think that sometimes it helps to get other opinions from people who do this stuff for their day job. That's all I'm saying.

Actually, what you said was "don't bother measuring, just call someone who sells the racks and ask." But then maybe that's just me being a know-it-all smarty pants.

[e30pq]

My whole point in responding to you in the first place was asking if you measured your findings or if this is what you believe due to the way they feel?

Yes it helps to get opinions, on something that an opinion matters on. What is there to be opinionated about measuring a steering rack? It's linear or it's not. It's a measurement. Why go through a company instead of measuring what's sitting right in front of you? That makes absolutely no sense at all. If I didn't have the rack, yeah, I'd call around and ask.

P.S. You didn't answer my question... What would you do if they gave us incorrect info?

Nevermind. I'm going to go sit in the corner in time-out for being a "know it all."

I hear what you are saying about measuring. It is a logical request and it sounds simple enough. The only measurement that makes sense to me is lock to lock.

I don't know how to measure linear vs. variable with any accuracy between the steering wheel and the front wheel movement.

As far as I know, the only way of determining whether a rack is linear or variable would be to view the gearing inside the rack casing to make that determination. I don't think there is a way to get into a rack to view the gears at least as far as I know.

Without getting into the rack casing to check the gearing, the next logical step to me would be contacting a company that selling these E30 rack upgrades. Everyone on the planet has the ability to make an error or share bad information (news flash). So it's possible that a vendor could give you bad information.

Again just for clarification, I believe the Z3 rack that provides 2.7 turns lock to lock comes from a specific Z3 model. I think it's an early 4 cylinder model but I'm not 100% sure. I purchased my Z3 rack from Zionsville and I am very happy with it's performance.

[Wh33lhop]

I hear what you are saying about measuring. It is a logical request and it sounds simple enough. The only measurement that makes sense to me is lock to lock.

So you are assuming that total distance travelled is the same then. Lock to lock means nothing without contextual information, because you don't know where the locks are. Sort of like comparing cars by peak horsepower numbers when you don't know how much they weigh or how much area's under the power curve (or gearing, or Cd, etc). Gives you a very vague idea of the characteristics, but nothing really too pertinent.

I don't know how to measure linear vs. variable with any accuracy between the steering wheel and the front wheel movement.

As far as I know, the only way of determining whether a rack is linear or variable would be to view the gearing inside the rack casing to make that determination. I don't think there is a way to get into a rack to view the gears at least as far as I know.

Or you could get some calipers and measure the displacement from a half turn in the middle of the steering range (1/4 turn left to 1/4 turn right) and then again close to lock. Different displacement in different areas of the range = variable, same displacement = linear.

Without getting into the rack casing to check the gearing, the next logical step to me would be contacting a company that selling these E30 rack upgrades. Everyone on the planet has the ability to make an error or share bad information (news flash). So it's possible that a vendor could give you bad information.

That's kind of the point.

Again just for clarification, I believe the Z3 rack that provides 2.7 turns lock to lock comes from a specific Z3 model. I think it's an early 4 cylinder model but I'm not 100% sure. I purchased my Z3 rack from Zionsville and I am very happy with it's performance.

Pretty sure all non-M Z3s come with the same rack. They do come with different shifters though.

[guibo09]

wow, this thread totally went to shit.

im not gonna pass any judgements here, but here is info how to measure a steering rack. please use it and report your findings instead of arguing.

this is best done with two people. have someone crank the steering wheel while you observe the steering rack at the tie-rod to rack housing area. notice which part stays fixed and which extends. pick a fixed reference point (somewhere on the housing) and moving point (somewhere on the tie-rod, avoid the boot).

measure between the fixed point and the moving point with the steering wheel centered. this is your 0. then, crank the steering wheel 45 deg and measure again. repeat until you've reached lock.

what you end up with is a bunch of data points. you can repeat the same exercise for the other side to confirm. or even do the same side multiple times to determine how acurate you are at measuring.

with that data, i can make you some fancy graphs that will explain everything.

sorry if this was too 'dumbed down', please dont be insulted.