Harness regulation questions for DE

[BenM]

So after only doing 2 events this past year with my local BMWCCA Chapter (Connecticut Valley), going to try and get out there more next year and try a few more tracks. With this I have been doing a few add-ons to my E30, including a bolt in 4pt. cage. I've been reading the tech inspection and regulations sheets for the bordering chapters with whom I'd like to do some events (Boston Chapter, Patroon Chapter, etc.) and am looking for a little clarity on one of the harness regulations.

Now for the Connecticut Valley and Patroon they state that equivalent restraints must be used on each side and 5 and 6 point harnesses w/ asm belts are permitted. However, the Boston Chapter states that aftermarket harness belts cannot be used past the expiration date on the harness.

Obviously the original 3pt. setup can be utilized, but why would they restrict a good aftermarket belt that is a few years expired from a stock one that is 20+ years old. Seems almost counter intuitive from a safety standpoint. Reason I am asking this is I have an expired Sabelt 5pt. and am considering a matching one. It's in good shape and I can get the other complete one for next to nothing (also in good shape).

Any advice or should I just pony up for the G-Force 5pt. belts?

Thanks.

[Dave]

Most regions allow expired harnesses in DE cars, but recent discussion over on the bf.c track subforum tells me this may be changing. you might do some reading over there - I know that a lot of the people who run events are active on that forum.

From what I understand, in NJ, the State Police actually comes to NJMP and checks dates on harnesses!!!!! PCA has tightened up its regs on harnesses as well it seems.

I bought the G-Force 6 point camlocks - they are 5 year FIA and affordable.

Even if your groups does not say equivalent seats and harnesses - I'd do it. I doubt your instructor will be happy if you are in a shell with a 6 point and he is in a stock seat with an ASM or stock belt. :-)

[BenM]

Most regions allow expired harnesses in DE cars, but recent discussion over on the bf.c track subforum tells me this may be changing. you might do some reading over there - I know that a lot of the people who run events are active on that forum.

From what I understand, in NJ, the State Police actually comes to NJMP and checks dates on harnesses!!!!! PCA has tightened up its regs on harnesses as well it seems.

I bought the G-Force 6 point camlocks - they are 5 year FIA and affordable.

Thanks for the input Dave, will definitely look over on the BFC track section. I'd probably get more responses since there is a bit more traffic over there.

Forgot to mention NJ, would love to try Lightning and/or Thunderbolt. State Police seems a bit excessive, but if they feel its necessary then w/e.

I will be looking into the G-Force camlocks, they seem to be unbeatable for the price.

[BenM]

Even if your groups does not say equivalent seats and harnesses - I'd do it. I doubt your instructor will be happy if you are in a shell with a 6 point and he is in a stock seat with an ASM or stock belt. :-)

Heh, completely agree.

[JGood]

+1 on the 6-point G-Force camlocks. I got a set and have been using them for a year or so.

NJ is nuts. At the last NASA event I was at, 3 people got ticketed for exceeding 15mph on the property. I've never personally had my car inspected by an officer, but they do it from time to time.

I'm not sure what the reasoning is for expired aftermarket harnesses vs. 20 year old stock 3 points. The only thing I can think of is that the material is different to allow for that 20% stretching, and as time goes on, that stretching may increase, making them unsafe in comparison to the stock belts, which probably aren't made to stretch. Just a guess.

[Dave]

Jury arguments is why.

Stock belts - they met the MFR and DOT rules.
Aftermarket belts within the rules - the meet a set of rules.
Expired belts - these are no longer "approved" or meet hte rules.

Get 12 people in a box who know nothing of motorsport, and they may latch on to the idea that those "expired" belts are hazardous.

Factory belts do not "expire".

[Emre]

Obviously the original 3pt. setup can be utilized, but why would they restrict a good aftermarket belt that is a few years expired from a stock one that is 20+ years old. Seems almost counter intuitive from a safety standpoint.

You have just discovered one of the enduring mysteries of the Boston Chapter. For whatever reason, they have decided that aftermarket safety equipment should be held to a higher standard than OEM.

All I can say is that each chapter has the duty to decide what level of safety they're comfortable with. Having served as a BMW club chapter president, event organizer, and chief instructor, I know how hard it is to draw lines in the sand. No matter what you do, you're going to catch sh1t from somewhere.

[BenM]

Thanks for the advice guys and all points are well received. I certainly understand where everyone is coming from.

[kishg]

Ben, I do tech inspections for NJ chapter. We require equivalent restraints and seating. We do not however check the expiry dates on belts. NJ race regulations should apply to racing, not DEs. I've run with many clubs in the area including some PCA and not had the tags checked.

Having said that, when i went the 4-pt route and put in race seats and harnesses, I did get new belts. Given that you can get G-Force or SafeQuip for decent prices, it seems prudent not to use very old belts.

[BenM]

Ben, I do tech inspections for NJ chapter. We require equivalent restraints and seating. We do not however check the expiry dates on belts. NJ race regulations should apply to racing, not DEs. I've run with many clubs in the area including some PCA and not had the tags checked.

Having said that, when i went the 4-pt route and put in race seats and harnesses, I did get new belts. Given that you can get G-Force or SafeQuip for decent prices, it seems prudent not to use very old belts.

Thanks for the input Kish. I don't think the belts I have are very old, but I am leaning towards the G-Force belts at this point and will check out the SafeQuip ones also.

[etxxz]

+1 on the 6-point G-Force camlocks. I got a set and have been using them for a year or so.

DE's usually don't care about the expiration as long as the harness looks healthy. They do, however, care about how it is mounted and that your instructor has a equal restraint and seating.

i have a 2013 FIA seat and 6pt g-force camlock, but the passenger seat is rocking a 5pt expired belt and expired seat. Its also bigger and wider to accomodate the larger instructors if i am ever assigned one at a venue i don't know. That is also acceptable. This has been my experience with PCA.

[sicisste]

I accept with information:Stock belts - they met the MFR and DOT rules.
Aftermarket belts within the rules - the meet a set of rules.
Expired belts - these are no longer "approved" or meet hte rules.

[racingwoody]

I instruct in NASA Great Lakes region and I believe DE's are still able to use expired belts but they have been discussing going the same route as the racers and requiring current belts?

I do know that I will not get in car with a student that has the drivers side set up like my race car and the pax side is factory.

[RangerGress]

Obviously the original 3pt. setup can be utilized, but why would they restrict a good aftermarket belt that is a few years expired from a stock one that is 20+ years old. Seems almost counter intuitive from a safety standpoint.

I agree it doesn't make sense. But bureaucracies are like that. The only question is which bureacracy came up with the rule. Insurance company maybe?