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**Dirtbleed** · 07-09-2010, 07:12 AM

I run Schroth 4 point "Anti Submarine" for Auto-X events. I still have the stock seatbelt for daily driving.

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**j0oftheworld** · 07-09-2010, 09:37 AM

If you have or will have a race seat in you might as well go 5point.
I have 2 blk Corbeau's w. Corbeau sliders so the mounts have previsions for the lap belts on them already. As for the sub belt it's basically under the seat w. grade 5 washers.

**SkinnyVT** · 07-09-2010, 10:29 AM

Skip the harness bar and put a rollbar in. If you insist on just doing the harness bar then the best option would be to run a 4-point Schroth.

**th3blue** · 07-09-2010, 10:38 AM

A full roll bar is not happening this year. Please try to help me within the constants posted. Thanks

**e30s50dan** · 07-09-2010, 11:10 AM

you can get the sabelt harness for a little over $100..ive been using them for years.If you plan to race,buy a FIA belt,or you will have to swap out every 2 years.FIA are good for 5 years,THEN send them backto have them recertified.mine is 7 years old now,but I hate breaking in new belts

**Bimmerman325i** · 07-09-2010, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by th3blue View Post

I'll be finishing the install of my sparco harness bar

This

Originally posted by th3blue View Post

I don't want to cut corners on safety.

and this are at cross purposes. Harness bars are death bars except for ricetastic poseurmobiles in parking lot car shows.

Originally posted by th3blue View Post

I'm keeping the stock belts for street driving, but I need a pair of proper harnesses to hold me in place and hopefully make me safer.

What type of harness do I want?

4 point, 5 point? It's only a harness bar so I'm at the mercy of the roof so do I want 4 points to be able to submarine?

thoughts, tips, experience, and E30 specific installation tips please!

I have run the Schroth ASM 4pts in my old E30 and loved them. They keep you from submarining (the nemesis of any 4pt), and they're really the only safe 4pts around. You don't want submarining.

However, with the 5pt+ and harness bar, you're less safe than if you run the stock 3pts. Seriously reconsider selling the harness bar. One roll over and you'll be very dead since you won't be able to slide out of the way of the roof. Putting a 4pt in isn't going to help, as you can now slide out of the way to get choked by the lap belt and die anyway (go read up on Schroth's website).

The ONLY safe way to run 5pt+ belts is to have a proper roll bar. Sell your $400 harness bar and buy a $400 Kirk bolt in roll bar. You could not pay me to ride in a car with a harness bar without rollover protection unless I can use the stock 3pt belts. Buy a CG-Lock to hold you in place with the 3pts, or buy the 4pt Schroth ASMs and ditch the harness bar. The point I'm trying to hit you over the head with is that a harness bar without rollover protection makes your car VERY unsafe no matter what- to you and any rear seat passengers. Don't do it.

Or be a fool and die. Safety is not an area to compromise in. If you can't afford a proper bar setup, you don't belong on track in anything other than stock safety gear. Halfassing it (harness bar) is a Very Bad Idea (tm).

**th3blue** · 07-09-2010, 02:02 PM

I'm not racing, I'll get a cage when I start racing, probably before then in reality.

I simply don't buy the logic that I'm more safe at a track day the way the car came from the factory vs. FIA certified seats, a harness bar, and properly installed harnesses. I'm probably dead in a stock car if it rolls. If I'm not moving around in my seat and trying to hold myself into place I'm already in a lot better shape. If an accident does happen I'll still be in better shape I'm willing to bet (and this is my gamble, it's always a gamble no matter how far you go). Also, if I have a cage I won't feel safe driving without a helmet (on the street) and I'm not ready to go that extreme yet.

So now that we've had the typical "OMG, harness bars kill people" can we please go back on topic.

**Bimmerman325i** · 07-09-2010, 02:09 PM

Harnesses are designed to keep you from moving. Combining that with a harness bar, which does nothing to protect you in a roll over, will kill you. Your Corbeau seats are also only FIA certified if they are installed in conjunction with a seatback brace, which only works with a roll bar/cage.

You don't need a cage to properly install harnesses, nor do you need a helmet to drive with a roll bar.

If your stock car rolls, you are in better shape by using all the stock stuff vs a harness bar, harnesses, and a fixed back seat. Only when you add rollover protection are fixed back seats and harnesses safer.

Your life, your car, your money, but you wouldn't pass tech for HPDEs around here with a harness bar, nor would you get 90% of instructors here to ride along with you.

FWIW, the reason the "OMG, harness bars kill people" argument exists is precisely because they do kill people.

**th3blue** · 07-09-2010, 02:10 PM

let me ask a more specific question, how do people recommend installing the rear lower point of the harness in a coupe. Do you just recommend the sandwich plates at the correct angle to the rear floor, or is there some better idea specific to the E30?

**Bimmerman325i** · 07-09-2010, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by th3blue View Post

let me ask a more specific question, how do people recommend installing the rear lower point of the harness in a coupe. Do you just recommend the sandwich plates at the correct angle to the rear floor, or is there some better idea specific to the E30?

The critical thing with the harness location is to have the angles within acceptable limits. Put the ends so that the belt is comfortable and the belts aren't angled beyond the manufacturer's specs. When you drill through the floor, use as bit a washer or backing plate as you can to more evenly distribute the force from the harness. What is even better is to reinforce the locations by welding extra metal there and welding your backing plates to that. That's a common route for sub straps.

For lap belts, I think it may be possible to use the oem seat belt anchor locations and the seat mounting bolts. I know VAC sells a setup that utilizes their seat mount plates and tabs to attach harnesses to.

**th3blue** · 07-09-2010, 02:27 PM

that's about what I expected, thanks.

looking at your sig, does your E30 have 4 point harnesses without a cage or harness bar? wouldn't that be the least safe option since your spine will take the hit in an accident?

**Bimmerman325i** · 07-09-2010, 02:40 PM

Mine has the schroth 4pt asm ones I alluded to earlier and Dirtbleed posted a good picture of. They prevent you from submarining and allow your body to twist a bit to get out of the way of a rollover crushing roof. They're approved for E30 stock seats due to the seat back strength from the factory.

I've seen photos from a guy who rolled an E36 with Recaro SRDs and the Schroth harnesses. The (300lb) driver's Recaro literally buckled and split at the hinge, flattening him down to where the harness did nothing. The passenger's did not and he was fine after the roll over.

The reason Schroth tests oem seat back strength is to ensure the seat is strong enough to withstand that kind of loading situation.

Since the OEM seat is used in the E30 with these harnesses, the seat takes the majority of the load instead of your spine unless you're freakishly tall. Granted, my seat isn't OEM, but the harnesses were installed before I learned better. I highly recommend those harnesses but do some reading on Schroth's site/call up HMS Motorsport to check your application.

I'm going through the whole safety process properly this time around on my M3 right now, and it sucks. I'd stick with oem seats and schroths until you can afford to do the roll bar, harnesses, and fixed backs all at once.

**Massive Lee** · 07-11-2010, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by th3blue View Post

my car is 80% trackday, 20% street (I drive it to events and for fun once and a while).

I strongly suggest you do it right.

If indeed the car sees 80% track duty, then simply fit a rollbar for your protection. With the rollbar you then can fit a 6 point harness. The 4 point so-called-"harnesses" are a joke and very unsafe. You can't tighten up the shoulder belts without raising the lap beltto the soft belly area while the belt should remain on your pelvic bones. And not having anti-sumarining substrap, you will slide under the lapbelt and crush your vital organs (I am talikng liver, bladder, intestines). The 5-point harness is not even accepted anymore in many racing groups (and 6-points will save your manhood).

Lee

**e30s50dan** · 07-11-2010, 12:35 PM

404 Not Found – Discovery Parts

http://www.discoveryparts.com/cgi-bin/store/commerce.cgi?cart_id=1278877100.300&product=harness

I been shopping here for years

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