Finally tracked it!

[kishg]

welcome to the addiction and definitely get some instruction. driving around by yourself is cool but you start learning bad habits which are hard to get rid off and also your learning curve will be pretty steep. keep the car safe and focus on seat time..

[dude8383]

welcome to the addiction and definitely get some instruction. driving around by yourself is cool but you start learning bad habits which are hard to get rid off and also your learning curve will be pretty steep. keep the car safe and focus on seat time..

Speaking of which, what do you recommend:

Hands at 9 and 3/10 and 2

or

The shuffle so that hands are always at 9 and 3 no matter the direction you are steering?

At monticello my instructor which has more of a auto-x background told me to do the shuffle. The next event at NJMP the instructor told me to keep my hands and 9 and 3 and cross arms.

Sorry if this is somewhat of a threadjack but I think it can be applied by O/P on the track day.

[Fusion]

No problem, also interested.

[briansjacobs]

depends on the car, size of steering wheel, do you have power steering....for the most 9/3 is optimal, and crossing over is fine. Again depends on car. there is a reason most 3 spoke wheels have an indent at 3/9 for your thumbs. Use them! The greater the contact patch of your hand on the wheel the more information that will be transmitted from the car to your hands and to your brain.

In my car for corners more than 9o degrees I need to shuffle as I need the mechanical advantage to turn the wheel. When in a radical or anything with power steering I will cross arms.

The only way this works is if you have a proper seating position, start by resting your wrist at 12:00 on the wheel. Do this with your back planted firmly in the seat without leaning forward. If you can not do it comfortably you are to far back! When at 3/9 you should have a slight bend in your arms and you should be able to turn the wheel an easy 90 degrees without your elbows hitting your stomach or ribs. You may need to pull seat forward and lean back or push seat back and sit more upright depending on length of legs and torso. Remember you are trying to sit IN the seat not ON the seat.

Autocrossers have a tendency to sit very upright so they can turn their neck and shoulders while driving, you do not have an 180 degree turns on a road course that is not necessary here.

[kishg]

9-3 as much as possible. monticello is a bit of an oddity since it has some very low speed 2nd gear corners through which you will need to move your hands. what i usually do in such situations is to move one hand to the 12 o'clock position when turning and pull in the direction of the turn, re-positioning the other hand so i am back in the 9-3 position through the turn. More info here: http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Steer...-hand_steering

[briansjacobs]

are they letting non members drive the full course there now, I have clients that are members there and we kept a few cars there. Fun track to drive but to narrow to race and they had no curbing when I was there last.

[kishg]

are they letting non members drive the full course there now, I have clients that are members there and we kept a few cars there. Fun track to drive but to narrow to race and they had no curbing when I was there last.

Yup, BMW CCA's been having a few events this year full course. there's curbing now but still too narrow to race. I hear some rumors that they might now lets outside clubs do full course next year but who knows..

[dude8383]

depends on the car, size of steering wheel, do you have power steering....for the most 9/3 is optimal, and crossing over is fine. Again depends on car. there is a reason most 3 spoke wheels have an indent at 3/9 for your thumbs. Use them! The greater the contact patch of your hand on the wheel the more information that will be transmitted from the car to your hands and to your brain.

In my car for corners more than 9o degrees I need to shuffle as I need the mechanical advantage to turn the wheel. When in a radical or anything with power steering I will cross arms.

The only way this works is if you have a proper seating position, start by resting your wrist at 12:00 on the wheel. Do this with your back planted firmly in the seat without leaning forward. If you can not do it comfortably you are to far back! When at 3/9 you should have a slight bend in your arms and you should be able to turn the wheel an easy 90 degrees without your elbows hitting your stomach or ribs. You may need to pull seat forward and lean back or push seat back and sit more upright depending on length of legs and torso. Remember you are trying to sit IN the seat not ON the seat.

Autocrossers have a tendency to sit very upright so they can turn their neck and shoulders while driving, you do not have an 180 degree turns on a road course that is not necessary here.

I see what you mean, I've got an mtech2 wheel so it definitely has those indents. I've got the seating position pretty spot on and its funny that you brought up the thing about seating IN the seat. I've heard that many times from instructors just talking to the drivers.

9-3 as much as possible. monticello is a bit of an oddity since it has some very low speed 2nd gear corners through which you will need to move your hands. what i usually do in such situations is to move one hand to the 12 o'clock position when turning and pull in the direction of the turn, re-positioning the other hand so i am back in the 9-3 position through the turn. More info here: http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Steer...-hand_steering

Yeh monticello has a few tight corners where you really do kind of have to shuffle. Thank you for that website btw, going to give that a read tomorrow!

[gobuffs]

There is no right/wring answer in the fixed vs shuffling steering. Might as well talk about politics, religion, oil brands, and brake pads while you are at it. I shuffle steer and nobody is going to make me change (also has a lot to do with my steering rack- slow manual E30 rack).

[kishg]

There is no right/wring answer in the fixed vs shuffling steering. Might as well talk about politics, religion, oil brands, and brake pads while you are at it. I shuffle steer and nobody is going to make me change (also has a lot to do with my steering rack- slow manual E30 rack).

yes, i agree although i have a slow manual e30 rack as well but i try not to shuffle when possible. can't you swap to the Z3 rack though? I cannot.

[SkinnyVT]

On Topic: While I have now switched to an e36 rack (best thing ever) when I did have the e30 rack or on autox's with tight turns I would set up for the turn beforehand; ie. place my hands at 6 and 12 so I could get an extra 90 degrees of steering without having to move my hands mid turn.

Slight side-topic: the word from the guy who signs clubs up to rent Monticello is that the full course will not be available next year.

Full on thread jack: MoHud SCCA is holding a PDX there Sept 24th on the full course, $250 (in reality it is being run by Patroon BMWCCA people) http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=179095

[kishg]

On Topic: While I have now switched to an e36 rack (best thing ever) when I did have the e30 rack or on autox's with tight turns I would set up for the turn beforehand; ie. place my hands at 6 and 12 so I could get an extra 90 degrees of steering without having to move my hands mid turn.

Slight side-topic: the word from the guy who signs clubs up to rent Monticello is that the full course will not be available next year.

Full on thread jack: MoHud SCCA is holding a PDX there Sept 24th on the full course, $250 (in reality it is being run by Patroon BMWCCA people) http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=179095

I'll be there instructing with patroon next Monday, not going to make the 9/24 date since i'll be going up to the glen for the club race weekend.

[SkinnyVT]

I'll be there instructing with patroon next Monday, not going to make the 9/24 date since i'll be going up to the glen for the club race weekend.

I'll be there Monday as well, driving a borrowed 320 since my car made love to the wall at Calabogie. I'm still debating driving to WGI after Monticello.


...alright, back on topic.

[gobuffs]

Yes I could swap in a Z3 rack. If I did that I might add electric PS. But, it still would change me from being a shuffle steerer.

[briansjacobs]

Yes I could swap in a Z3 rack. If I did that I might add electric PS. But, it still would change me from being a shuffle steerer.

watch any real professional race driver (not some of these bozo's that pay to drive in grand am but a real pro) none of them shuffle steer.

cosmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnGYw9S26T8

Auberlen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEwAXDjfnBo