so whos tracked w/ 15s and also 16s?

[Wh33lhop]

Shop did it with the roller in the photo. Pulled, hammered, beaten, rolled....whatever, they are still stock sheet metal over the tire & wheel combos I mentioned.

Right, but the point is, regardless if they are stock BMW sheet metal you have highly modified fenders.

I am very pleased to throw in repeated plugs for Lee, after all of the great things his BBKs have done for my cars...but especially when I am making a post in disagreement with his statement about 16" tire availability.

Right, but you do not have to be a billboard. We aren't children--a quick mention of what the brakes have done for your car would help hawk his wares more than capitalizing or bolding or whatever in every post; that only brings attention to your affiliation and bias. Nobody likes having a product shoved down their throat.

Uh, where were you with the tact jab when poster I was quoting said it couldn't be done after I had previously stated that I already had done it? :???:

I think nando had a good point and may have a more relevant perspective to the OP; while this is the track forum, the vast majority of posters are not competing in time trials, they are looking to enjoy their time at track days. The OP was not specific in his question so it's reasonable to assume that he may not want to completely bash out his fenders and run 10J wheels and 305s. I am not saying your info is irrelevant, but in the context of the average r3v member it may be a long shot.

[makard]

Those fenders aren't just rolled, they are pulled to all hell. And, we get it, you have MASSIVE BRAKES. Have some tact for god's sake.

Shop did it with the roller in the photo. Pulled, hammered, beaten, rolled....whatever, they are still stock sheet metal over the tire & wheel combos I mentioned.

I am very pleased to throw in repeated plugs for Lee, after all of the great things his BBKs have done for my cars...but especially when I am making a post in disagreement with his statement about 16" tire availability.

Uh, where were you with the tact jab when poster I was quoting said it couldn't be done after I had previously stated that I already had done it? :???:

Oh, and the photos are of the 18" stuff, the OP was asking about 16" stuff and it requires much less "pull(ing) all to hell" since the overall diameters are about 2" less.

[Wh33lhop]

Those fenders aren't just rolled, they are pulled to all hell. And, we get it, you have MASSIVE BRAKES. Have some tact for god's sake.

[makard]

plus none of that will fit under stock fenders.

18x10 wheels, 305/30-18 both Kuhmo & Hoo-Hoo DOT Radials, stock e30 sheet metal....

Rolling Fenders....


Rolled Fenders....


More Rolled Fenders...


Painted Rolled Fenders, Street Legal e30...


Close-up of rolled BMW sheet metal fender...



Rolled Stock Fenders (see fendergate) e30 in IP at Barber...



More Barber....



So, having DONE it, I'm relatively certain that it CAN, indeed, be done!

As for availability of 16" stuff, I guess it depends on width as well because I've had absolutely no problem whatsoever finding 16" R compound Hoosier DOTs and radial slicks to fit the 16x10 REAL wheels covering my awesome MASSIVE BRAKES BBKs on the #96 car. Maybe no skimpy contact patch stuff on the shelf, but those fat ones are ready and MUCH less expensive than the 18s I've been running on #03 and will be running on the "new" e30 "Vader". :):):)

[Massive Lee]

16s is a great size, you can get wider tires.

16s isn't a great size. You can't get R compound with the proper diameter.
It is 15" or 17"...

[nando]

but you're talking wheels that cost $1500+, plus the tires (which are fairly cheap, but not *that* cheap).

and what are we talking here, HPDEs or competetive w2w racing? because getting every last ounce of grip in an HPDE isn't that important, relative to spending money on entrance fees & consumables rather than go-fast parts.

plus none of that will fit under stock fenders.

[makard]

I concur. Stick to 15s.

Until recently, the #96 car was still running a totally stock m20 with a Dinan chip. In fact, it still had stock exhaust as recently as early last season. None of the e30s running normal (non-cantilevered) tire sizes were remotely competitive with this car in the corners. More grip is even more important with lower power to better maintain
momentum!

[kishg]

In my experience, it is a wash. What you gain from the increased contact patch of tires on 16" wheels you loose from the greater unsprung weight, at least with mostly stock M20B25 engine.

I concur. Stick to 15s.

[makard]

I purchased the set of 16x10 REAL wheels that are on the #96 car for about $1000.00 delivered, but they were a set built for a Mazda. So, I had to order new centers with the 4x100 BMW bolt pattern. I think the set of new centers cost about $500.00 delivered. Then, of course, we had to buy a tube of silicon caulk to seal them with and minimal labor associated with taking them apart and applying the sealant when we reassembled them with the new centers. I didn't think a total price of less than $400.00 per wheel for a 16x10 that weighs less than 12lbs and can be setup to clear BBK from MASSIVE BRAKES could event remotely be considered to be overly pricey....and YES they CAN be installed using stock sheet metal with some significant "rolling" of the fender openings for clearance (I have photos of my #03 car running in IP with 305/30-18 rubber under "rolled" stock sheet metal, so I'm 100% certain this CAN be done).

Since 2001, I've been buying 16" take off slicks (eg: Goodyear Eagle radials) for $75 per tire delivered. They were good enough for several class record lap times and at least one BMW CCA Club Racing national championship. IMO, the bottom-line cost associated with the incredibly superior grip of a contact patch of this size, utilizing internet to find quality used items, is what I consider to be very economical compared to buying new narrower R compound tires & wheels in the sizes that are commonly known to "fit" an e30 (not to mention the significant performance gains associated with that superior contact patch configuration actually weighing less than a good portion of the 15" stuff that is so widely used). If the rules don't require one to stick with narrower sizes and/or smaller diameters.... my opinion falls into the redneck category of "Go BIG or go home!" :):):)

[briansjacobs]

I've run 15x8, 16x10, and 18x10 on e30 (non-M) chassis with rolled stock sheet metal fenders. The 305 rubber on the 18" wheels does provide significantly better grip than anything I could find for the 15x8 wheels, but my REAL 16x10 wheels are really sweet. By far lighter than anything I've seen anyone else running in 15" sizes and they clear my AWESOME BBKs from Massive Brakes. 23.5x11.5/16 slicks fit them very well and the grip is tough to beat without adding the additional weight and ride height associated with the 18" stuff. My #96 NASA GTS car uses the REAL stuff and my old #03 DM BMW CCA CR car used the 18x10s. The "new" e30 "Vader" is running the same 18x10s spares from the #03 car, but if I were starting over today, it would have 16x10 REAL wheels. Inexpensive. Extremely lightweight. And WIDE enough to put some serious meat on an e30!:):):)

nothing like running on real slicks as opposed to R compund. but talk about consumables.

[JRKOUPE]

rubber and 16s

thanks for the responses........I consider many of the responses here significant as I know many of you..and your expertise.

It looks like there is no clear reason to pony($$) up for 16s.....at least right now.

Mikey A,.....I cant even imagine the costs on the REALs....and they would not fit stock sheet metal.....correct?

[makard]

I've run 15x8, 16x10, and 18x10 on e30 (non-M) chassis with rolled stock sheet metal fenders. The 305 rubber on the 18" wheels does provide significantly better grip than anything I could find for the 15x8 wheels, but my REAL 16x10 wheels are really sweet. By far lighter than anything I've seen anyone else running in 15" sizes and they clear my AWESOME BBKs from Massive Brakes. 23.5x11.5/16 slicks fit them very well and the grip is tough to beat without adding the additional weight and ride height associated with the 18" stuff. My #96 NASA GTS car uses the REAL stuff and my old #03 DM BMW CCA CR car used the 18x10s. The "new" e30 "Vader" is running the same 18x10s spares from the #03 car, but if I were starting over today, it would have 16x10 REAL wheels. Inexpensive. Extremely lightweight. And WIDE enough to put some serious meat on an e30!:):):)

[Jean]

^ that. 15x8 with 225s plenty of choices :)

[Bglad]

15's are your best bet, lots of options, and cheaper tires too. Stay away from 16's $$$$ and limited sizes in good track tires..

[Jean]

16s is a great size, you can get wider tires.

lol