Suspension upgrade: Should I increase springs rates or add a camber kit?

[Emre]

Strongly disagree with the H&R Race springs recommendation. They are far too soft for how much they lower the car. And they will not be a good match for your huge IE swaybars. Spec E30 guys use them because they have to. I doubt anyone would run them if they had their choice of springs.

I would strongly recommend the Turner Motorsports "J-Stock" springs, which are basically re-badged BMW Gruppe-N springs as I understand. The combination of TMS J-Stock springs, Bilstein Sport dampers, and f&r IE swaybars is pure magic on the track.

I have that set-up (plus front camber plates) on my old E30 track car and anyone who has ever driven it (including a few experienced club racers) has commented on how beautifully the car handles. You can put it anywhere on the track and it does whatever you ask it to do. Incredibly responsive. Quite fast, too.

Disconnect your rear sway bar.

Absolutely no need to disconnect the rear bar on an M20-powered E30 as long as you've set everything up correctly and you have a functioning LSD.

If you increase the spring rates much you need to upgrade the shocks. No if and or buts about it. Bil HD's wont control higher rate springs well.

Oops. Just realized the OP was running HD's and not Sports. In that case, forget what I wrote above. HD's won't work well with TMS J-Stock springs. The regular Sports work well with those springs...no need to plump for the custom-valved ones from TMS. They're nice, but it's not really a night-and-day difference.

[FredK]

Question: When starting out doing HPDEs, is it preferable to start with a stiffer sprung car? Do you learn more information in a corner with softer springs?

[JRKOUPE]

track time

..how can you not love these threads?????????????????..

The OP by now has 100% brain freeze.( I would assume) ......it can take yrs of tracking and getting to know a car before some of this makes any sense to any1....and its still subjective.

Some great posts here by guys "in the know"........but it makes me smile/laugh fo sho.

[KennyT]

Almost everything you do suspension wise will make your car sharper, and harder to drive. Stick with your exact setup until you can run within a couple seconds of the instructors.

Every driver is a bit different and as you do more track days you will figure out how you want the car to handle and everyone can help from there.

[kishg]

AST/GC Coilover > J Stock > H&R Race/Bill Sport IMO.

However, I'm not sure it makes much of a difference for a novice driver. To answer FredK's question an overly stiff suspension will make it harder for a novice driver to anticipate what the car's going to do fast enough.

[FredK]

Thanks for the feedback!

[XvillainousX]

Absolutely no need to disconnect the rear bar on an M20-powered E30 as long as you've set everything up correctly and you have a functioning LSD.

I havent been to any track on the east coast but here in Cali tracks like thunderhill, Infineon, or Lauguna we have high speed off camber turns. Running with a rear sway at SpecE30 speeds most certainly means you're running with one wheel in the air. Thus to keep 4 wheels contacted to the surface, Spec guys run with no rear sway so they can get on the gas sooner. My very close friend races spec e30.

[Jean]

Even in autox disconnecting rear bar helps. Depends on conditions/car setup.

[Emre]

Running with a rear sway at SpecE30 speeds most certainly means you're running with one wheel in the air. Thus to keep 4 wheels contacted to the surface, Spec guys run with no rear sway so they can get on the gas sooner. My very close friend races spec e30.

Again, the H&R springs requried for Spec E30 (and Spec E36) have that magical combination of being too low and too soft. If your car is sprung and damped optimally, lifting wheels due to excessive body roll and bounding around over bumps isn't a significant issue. If you look at what the racers run in stock classes without a spec spring, I don't think you'll find a single one running H&R Race.

There are definitely some "better" options out there (although they come with their own compromises); but for a typical E30 car that sees a mix of [some] street and [mostly] track use on a variety of circuits under a variety of conditions, it's really hard to go wrong with TMS J-Stock springs and Bilstein Sport dampers.

[kishg]

emre, spece36 runs H&R RSS coilovers.

[JGood]

Again, the H&R springs requried for Spec E30 (and Spec E36) have that magical combination of being too low and too soft. If your car is sprung and damped optimally, lifting wheels due to excessive body roll and bounding around over bumps isn't a significant issue. If you look at what the racers run in stock classes without a spec spring, I don't think you'll find a single one running H&R Race.

There are definitely some "better" options out there (although they come with their own compromises); but for a typical E30 car that sees a mix of [some] street and [mostly] track use on a variety of circuits under a variety of conditions, it's really hard to go wrong with TMS J-Stock springs and Bilstein Sport dampers.

Thanks for your input in this thread. I think I'm going to put my H&R Races that are on my track car on my street car and get some J-stocks for my track car. Is Turner still the best (only?) place for them, @ $399?

I can get H&R Races for $275 through my tirerack account, that's why they seemed like such a good value to me.

The only thing I don't agree with is the height with the H&R Race springs. I am running a stock-height camber plate in the front, no springs pads all around, and my car is 2420 w/o driver, but it is not low by any means. Maybe with 2700+ lbs and some real camber plates (GC, Vorshlag, etc...) that's a different story.

[Jean]

J-spec are 800 ft/lbs front & 1142 ft/lbs rear.. I doubt stock dampers will like those for any length of time?

[Massive Lee]

Stock dampers will not suffer any damage from being used with high rate springs as the dampers will be of no use with such high rate. The shocks simply won't be able to control the springs. But the opposite (stiff shocks and soft springs) will have detrimental effects on the shocks themselve, on top of giving a very uncomfortable ride

There's a reason why Turner sells revalved Bilsteins along with their J-Stock springs. Most likely the common 300/300 specs even though I'd recommend 300 damping/330 rebound.

PS I also suggest the rear swaybar at the softest setting if your aim is to be able to get on the gas as soon as possible out of a corner, and be quicker. A less independent rear suspension means the inside wheel will have less pressure on the ground in corners. Meaning you'll need to wait a bit longer to "mash" the gas pedal...

Lee

[325ix]

Given jayuuey's current set up, changing to H&R race springs and R compound tires would be the most logical, economical, and easist way to achieve his next set of goals. It will help him reduce the roll and improve grip. After that will be brake compound.

Question..
Have you tried to race a SpecE30 racer? Spec racers know how to slide the car into corners and keep the momentum through corners. You'd be surprised just how good H&R race can be.

Oh I wasn't disagreeing, I was more asking for your reasons.

[XvillainousX]

Again, the H&R springs requried for Spec E30 (and Spec E36) have that magical combination of being too low and too soft. If your car is sprung and damped optimally, lifting wheels due to excessive body roll and bounding around over bumps isn't a significant issue. If you look at what the racers run in stock classes without a spec spring, I don't think you'll find a single one running H&R Race.

There are definitely some "better" options out there (although they come with their own compromises); but for a typical E30 car that sees a mix of [some] street and [mostly] track use on a variety of circuits under a variety of conditions, it's really hard to go wrong with TMS J-Stock springs and Bilstein Sport dampers.

I guess next time I'll need to go deaper in depth with my answers next time around.

My reasoning for H&Rs is because he'll be able to benchmark himself with a SpecE30 racer's lap times. Lets just say he got a set of R compound tires, and racing brake pads, he'll have a semi-close setup to a Spece30 racer. He'll therefor have a reference point in which to aim to improve on his racecraft. Also if he was able to follow and learn from a spec racer, he'll learn its not the car its the driver.

Whereas, someone who may not have extensive track experience may question his coilover set up. And use what ever excuse why he isnt going fast enough to throw more money into something when only it's seat time he needs. Also I was trying to save him a few bucks.

And to address the swaybar topic, Lee basically answered that question.

My friend races SpecE30.. I was building one until we decided to a team setup. His will be Spec and mine will be GTS2 or maybe 3. I also have two other e30 guys that have track only e30s.