thinking of a roll cage

[dnova89]

Alright so I pretty much have my track e30 stripped down to the bone right now. Every day walking up my driveway and seeing that stripped interior gives me thoughts of a roll cage every time. I'm thinking about ditching the idea of coilovers for my e39 and just getting a roll cage for my e30. I want to buy materials myself, and my neighbor is a professional welder for over 20 years, so hopefully he can weld it up for me.

I tried searching around on this site but when I type "roll cage" or "roll cage buildling" into search it brings up a bunch of irrelevant shit, I'm sure this topic has been discussed somewhere on r3v though so I apologize for having to make a new thread.

So where should I start reading up on to get a good idea of what I need to know to start planning my roll cage? My friends that track their e30s all have roll cages, so I will probably get a lot of advice from them as well, but as usual I like to get a lot of inputs before spending a lot of money.

What's the best way to get materials? What type of material should I get? Is it extremely difficult to connect the roll cage to the front struts and rear shock mounts? Any other tips/advice/warnings? e30 specific roll cage info appreciated!

How much money should I have ready to blow before getting into this? I should be prepared to buy racing seats and harnesses once cage has been installed right? I'll have to padd it up too because I plan to drive my car to the track and back home, but that's the only time it'll see the street.

Basically all I know is to keep bends to an absolute minimum and that triangles are the way to go. I should be fine with the guidance of my friend who already tracks his caged e30, but I just want to do some research too.

I'm kind of iffy on getting a cage since I have never even taken my e30 to the track yet, but I thought it would be convenient to do while my car is stripped. Even if I don't get one now I will definitely get one eventually so might as well get info anyway.

Thanks!

[j0oftheworld]

I'd make it NASA/SCCA legal if you can. Then if you ever end up racing or selling it, it'll be more marketable.
A "legal" cage can be very basic if you don't want to do too much. With all the room inside an E30 you could beef up the tubing size and cut down on bracing/triangulation.
I'm not sure which way I'm going w. mine but I did find a GOLDMINE of Goupe-A style cage pics on S14.net. I'm no my work laptop or I'd post the link. Searching should find it.

[KenC]

If your neighbor doesn't have experience building cages, his welding skills are useless. You need to find a shop that has built a lot of them, drop it off, and then pick it up when it's done.

[JGood]

I have never even taken my e30 to the track yet

You're about 50 steps too far ahead in your build. Unless you are racing, or plan on using a race seat, helmet and harnesses each time you drive that car, you don't need a cage.

Cages are built according to the regulations of the race class you are in, which can vary greatly. Since you've never even been on the track, much less in a competition event, I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

I'm not sure why you feel it's convenient to do it right now. Just because it's currently stripped? Do you plan on putting the interior back in later or something? Why not hold off until you actually know what race class you want to be in and build it then? Most people spend several years in HPDE's before deciding to go w2w (if they even do... since a race weekend costs 10x what a DE costs, not including the tow vehicle and trailer). Even if you pick a class and build for one now, who knows what the regulations will be in a a few years?

Also, I'd recommend having one built for you by a reputable shop.

[SlapDash]

If your neighbor doesn't have experience building cages, his welding skills are useless. You need to find a shop that has built a lot of them, drop it off, and then pick it up when it's done.

This is absolutely true. There is a LOT of bending, testing, fitting, re-fitting, compound bending, etc., that goes into building a cage. My guy, Bill Doyle, of cagethis.com, is a cage expert and has built several rally roll cages for himself, me and a number of others, but also track cages.

He's in Lynn, MA, however, he has built cages in pieces and shipped them for a local welder to install. Right now he's booked through January, but you may want to get in touch (tell him Kris at Slapdash Racing sent you). His personal race car is an E30 rally car.

If the car the is stripped, including the dash, it won't be that difficult to attach the cage to the towers (re-inforcing them of course). However, to do this, you must relocate the fuse box. I pushed mine over a little bit, but still have to find a solution to cover up the jellyfish of wires beneath it, as I had to remove the bottom of the box.

And as j0oftheworld said, build the car to the specs you are going to race in, as it will be easier to sell, if that's the way you go. It's easier to spend the money to get it done correctly. I have no regrets with my cage -- or the money I spent.

The rule books of any given sanctioning body (SCCA/Rally America/NASA, etc.), will tell you what kind of steel you need, but also the thickness required, etc. In my case, I have 1.75-inch tube for the main bits, and 1.5-inch for lesser bits -- and plenty of gussets.

Good luck with the search and better luck on the track!

Kris

[Dude]

You're about 50 steps too far ahead in your build. Unless you are racing, or plan on using a race seat, helmet and harnesses each time you drive that car, you don't need a cage.

Cages are built according to the regulations of the race class you are in, which can vary greatly. Since you've never even been on the track, much less in a competition event, I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

I'm not sure why you feel it's convenient to do it right now. Just because it's currently stripped? Do you plan on putting the interior back in later or something? Why not hold off until you actually know what race class you want to be in and build it then? Most people spend several years in HPDE's before deciding to go w2w (if they even do... since a race weekend costs 10x what a DE costs, not including the tow vehicle and trailer). Even if you pick a class and build for one now, who knows what the regulations will be in a a few years?

Also, I'd recommend having one built for you by a reputable shop.

This.



Sure cages are safer and hold a cool value. But when you get on the track the first time with an instructor and its obvious that you have never driven on the track your gonna look kinda like an idiot with a cage.

[jlevie]

Sure cages are safer and hold a cool value. But when you get on the track the first time with an instructor and its obvious that you have never driven on the track your gonna look kinda like an idiot with a cage.

That isn't at all true. Show up for your first DE in a car with a cage, race seats, and six-point harnesses and your instructor will be thrilled. Nobody is going to look down at you during your first few DE's just because the car has a cage. If anything they might be jealous.

I do agree with those that recommend that you have an experienced cage builder install the cage. There's more to a good cage than just bending and welding some tubing.

[Massive Lee]

That isn't at all true. Show up for your first DE in a car with a cage, race seats, and six-point harnesses and your instructor will be thrilled.

... or he may also think there's a lot going on in your head. If I get a novice student with a full rollcaged car, I would make sure to spend a full hour before the first session to discuss "things" with him.

If safety is indeed a concern at the track for the OP, then I wouldn't go beyond a simple rollbar and stock seats, until the novice driver understands the basics of car dynamic. A 5/6 point harness and race bucket seat is a long way from the usual seating position and feel. Too many changes all at once.

[kishg]

tend to agree with lee here. a fully caged/stripped car in the hands of a novice would make me think carefully about what his/her goals are at an HPDE. OP, I would go with JGood's advice.

[Dave]

tend to agree with lee here. a fully caged/stripped car in the hands of a novice would make me think carefully about what his/her goals are at an HPDE. OP, I would go with JGood's advice.

THE GOAL IS TO WIN!!!!!!!! ;)

I'll echo the many comments above to have someone experienced in building road racing cages do it. If the guy is a drag car builder, be wary - their rules and designs are WAAAAAYYYYYY different. And make sure they have the rulebook(s). if you get one, make sure it is compliant with the SCCA, NASA and BMW CCA rulesets. The rules are mostly identical, but there are some slight variances, though you can build a cage that meets all three organizations requirements.

[chau]

Also, I'd recommend having one built for you by a reputable shop.

Mr. Tiebout can build one :-D

[dnova89]

Hmm okay I understand what everyone is saying. Just for the record I have been to the track before and am going again this weekend in my stock e39. I said I have never been to the track in my e30 before lol. My e30 will see it's first track day this December.

Anyway, I do plan on going to the track being a life-long hobby, definitely want to try w2w racing when I reach that level of driving, don't know if I'll like it or not though. So I guess I'll just hold off on the cage for now and get some coilovers for my e39 :D maybe I'll come back to this idea in a year or two.

Since we've already started the discussion, how much should I have saved up at least before I start looking around for a shop to build my cage? I know cages come with different prices since they're all custom but I just want to know how much I should have in my bank before I even start shopping.

Thanks guys.

[Mike The Bavarian]

for a custom cage you're looking at anywhere from $1000-$2500ish depending on what's done

[Massive Lee]

^^^I'd say much closer to $2,5k than $1k, and even beyond.

[Mike The Bavarian]

^^^I'd say much closer to $2,5k than $1k, and even beyond.

let me re-phrase, I should've stated this; 1k is about custom roll bar price.
2.5k is probably base price in your area for a basic cage. I'd have about $3.5k set aside for it.