so who tracks an s/m50 swapped car?...

[4ce30]

I do like that this thread has nothing at all to do with the engines in the thread title...

Here's me and my non powersteering m50 e30 at the track:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QcE0it6ZIE

[M42Power]

Just to add some info, my is came stock with manual steering rack. The feel of the stock rack is amazing, you can feel everything trough the steering wheel and parking the car with 205's is no big deal. The problem of the stock manual rack is the ridiculous amount of turns it does (like 5 turns end-to-end), wich means that you have to put a good amount of steering input in sharper corners. And when you have to catch a slide, you're gonna sweat

[XvillainousX]

To summarize:

People who really race their E30's (SpecE30, PRO3..etc) remove the PS.

People who do track days keep it.

I know plenty of Norcal SpecE30s that run or ran (I havent been to a NASA event in a while) power steering in their *cough* race car. Here we are able to supersize our race weekend. Pay a little bit more and run both SpecE30 and GTS. In a nutshell doubling our track time during the course of a race weekend. As a group what we found and shared amongst everyone in the paddock was that the guys running power steering were less fatigued ran more consistent lap times when we had back to back sessions. So should everyone run power steering? No, do what you feel suits your racecraft.

Name dropping is pretty stupid. Go ahead and ask James Clay or Clay Aikin for their opinion, it doesn't mean what they say should be taken as racing scripture.

[dsobering47]

does anybody actually take the internal seals out of the rack when you de-power it? Or are you guys just taking the belt off the pulley and thinking this is now manual?

[4ce30]

Just take the belt off poor some fluid in the lines and loop them together. I did minę with a 90 from the hardware store and hose clamps.

[VinniE30]

Just take the belt off poor some fluid in the lines and loop them together. I did minę with a 90 from the hardware store and hose clamps.

Actually the majority consensus is to drain the rack of PS fluid when converting to manual. There's been a lot of talk on here about this, check the power steering delete threads. It's because the rack is lubricated by grease in a separate part, the PS fluid is just for getting pressurized by the PS pump to decrease steering effort. OE BMW manual racks don't have any PS fluid in them (obviously) because it's not used for lubrication, grease is.

[seatown88]

I would never want to have a non-PS car on the track. If you're always well under the limit of traction and don't care about the precision of your steering, then yes it's just like any other street car before PS became popular - you only really need it at low speed. But if you ever get into a high speed tank slapper, go on a bumpy track, you're going to regret it, badly. Every race car, including F1 (not talking amateur play cars), not including dragsters , has power steering. The only reason not to install it is laziness, and to delete it is stupid. The reason to keep it is everything else.

This is what happens when you get into a high speed tank slapper without PS...


Just let go of the steering wheel and let the car sort it all out, seriously. A tank slapper is a series of late, over corrections which is what I started doing until I decided to let go of the wheel.

To reiterate what's been said before, suspension alignment can have a great effect on steering effort. Increase the caster and you are going to increase the steering effort, but also help self-align the car in situations like the video above.

It really does come down to a matter of preference. You got to find what works best for you, while keeping it as simple as you can. No need to create more failures on track that can potentially end your day early. I love my race car w/o powersteering, and I love my DD with it.

[apexhero]

what sir seatown88 said!

damn, why cant there be a pro3 organization in socal!

love them akg s2 shifters!

[e30pq]

Here you go.

http://youtu.be/U9TyP4cDFAM

[dsobering47]

Looping the lines is not the same, which is exactly what I was talking about. I found a miata forums link for de-powering a steering rack and used that. I took it completely apart, removed the two internal seals, lubricated everything with grease, blocked off the lines with a blockoff plate...and it really is pretty great.

Looping the lines without removing the internal seals in the rack is lazy and does not have the same effect.

[apexhero]

would you happen to have a link to that forum writeup.

[4ce30]

Actually the majority consensus is to drain the rack of PS fluid when converting to manual. There's been a lot of talk on here about this, check the power steering delete threads. It's because the rack is lubricated by grease in a separate part, the PS fluid is just for getting pressurized by the PS pump to decrease steering effort. OE BMW manual racks don't have any PS fluid in them (obviously) because it's not used for lubrication, grease is.

Cool, Sounds like your the non power steering guru Congrats!!!! How does your non power steering m50 do at the track!?

[VinniE30]

Cool, Sounds like your the non power steering guru Congrats!!!! How does your non power steering m50 do at the track!?

I'd love to hear why you think the rack should be filled with power steering fluid when doing a power steering delete. I don't care where you claim to drive your e30, doesn't matter, at least back up your statements with some facts.

[seatown88]

Actually the majority consensus is to drain the rack of PS fluid when converting to manual. There's been a lot of talk on here about this, check the power steering delete threads. It's because the rack is lubricated by grease in a separate part, the PS fluid is just for getting pressurized by the PS pump to decrease steering effort. OE BMW manual racks don't have any PS fluid in them (obviously) because it's not used for lubrication, grease is.

+1, remove all the PS fluid and block the hydraulic ports. Looping the line is probably one of the cheapest methods, but also it is still untidy. A blockoff plate or, my personal preference of plugs, create a much cleaner install. The reason I prefer plugs versus the blockoff plates it that the atmospheric vents allow for dirt and debris to enter into the rack potentially causing scouring a damage to the internal. The plugs are a simple, more cost effective method to remove the powersteering system.

Looping the lines is not the same, which is exactly what I was talking about. I found a miata forums link for de-powering a steering rack and used that. I took it completely apart, removed the two internal seals, lubricated everything with grease, blocked off the lines with a blockoff plate...and it really is pretty great.

Looping the lines without removing the internal seals in the rack is lazy and does not have the same effect.

I don't see how the removal of internal seals alters the performance of the rack significantly enough to differentiate between a "de-powered" rack and a de-powered rack, provided the powersteering fluid is drained. Care to ellaborate more?

[dsobering47]

I'll find the link from the miata guys de-powering the rack, but the way I understand it is that the two internal rings that seal each side, will be physically pushing either grease or fluid and causing higher resistance, thus altering steering effort. By dissassembling the rack and removing these sealing rings, grease can still flow internally and keep everything lubricated, but is not contained 'per side' and does not add to steering effort in the same way that just removing the belt does.

From my 5 minute, sub-25 mph test drive around my neighborhood after I got my swap running, the steering seemed great to me.