Lets Talk E30 Potential.

[Massimo]

I bought some Dunlop Z1 Star Specs 205/55/16 for my car 318is, a few weeks ago. The other day I was driving through some twisty near my house and came up behind a 2006 WRX P-plater (Refer post 3#). We had a bit of fun and the whole time I was right up his ass.

This dose not seem, right my car is still on 20 year old suspension I am assuming that he is just inexperienced. I am also not pushing the car as hard as it can probably go due to the suspension if feels awfully unstable and I am scared it will step out to quickly. So this got me wondering how good the handling of the E30 can be with some upgrading and after researching there is no definitive answer on how well the E30's handle.

Therefore I have come to the track forum to ask you guys about what cars you have given a run for there money at the track as this would be a more controlled environment with a more accurate result, also list what suspension/tires and modifications you have. That way we can have a bit of an incite to the potential the E30's have, and what setups work well.

Cheers

[Bimmerman325i]

First, wtf is a P-plater?

Gave E46 M3s a run in my E30 on Bilstein HDs, Eibach Pro-kit springs and pro-kit sways, and Falken 195/60/14 RT-615s. Obviously was destroyed in the straights, but in the twisty bits, I was catching them.

Buddy on GC SAs, 15x8 TRM wheels, and 225/45/15 Hankook RS3s was giving damn near everyone a run for their money last weekend.

Secondly, a WRX doesn't handle all that well stock (I'm a Subaru guy at heart). They're quite capable, but their chassis is not that stiff and they're not made for canyon carving so much as rallying. More likely though, the driver of the WRX wasn't pushing it/confident in the rather stock squishy suspension.

E30s handle really well out of the box. Just put a quality suspension (i.e. not what was on my car, mismatched parts were not fun to drive around rather than with) setup on the car and you're good to go. An excellent starting point is the H&R Race/Bilstein Sport SpecE30 combo.

[Massimo]

P-Plate = Provisional License for when you just start driving or have lost your license and have started again, they are usually 17-21 year olds.

Thanks for the post exactly what I want to read.

[CincinnatiKid]

Meh, matters what the other driver's potential is, I've passed everything from brand new Z06's to 911 turbos in the corners at some tracks, but on the straights I might as well be standing still. Guys in much more expensive cars would come up to me after sessions and ask what I've done to the car, when in reality I just have a well set up suspension.

Also +1 for Subaru's not handling well, my WRX is fast off the line but in corners not so much unless they've been modified pretty heavily for the track.

[Bishop]

Lol... I'm the buddy on hankooks.... Simple and effective mods have completely changed my car. I can post some video later today from the track. Obviously there's a margin of decent driver vs. Not-so-good driver with a fast car. Or you can search "high plains raceway r3v" in YouTube since I can't embed video from my phone. Car simply has 15x8 TR C1 wheels, 225/45-15 Hankook RS3s, a Mark D chip, and Ground Control single adjustable coils. Took a bunch of weight out of the car too. I've had similar experiences as ^^^^... people constantly come up to me in the put wondering how the hell I was keeping up or passing em. And my WRX and my STI were fun around town, but for track use, the BMW is more fun than either of em.

[rob_e30]

Last weekend was the first BMW Club race of the season for our area. It was at the new Chuckwalla raceway outside of Palm Springs. The #1 finisher was an E46 M3 running in the Super Modified category. After 16 laps and 30 minutes of racing the #2 car was an E30 M3, in D Modified and just 10 seconds behind, followed by another D Mod E30 M3 2.6 seconds behind the previous car. We were not able to qualify as we lost a part on track, so started the race in last place. Picked up 12 places in 15 laps.

[gverelli]

Im going to shoot the wrench in on this one... I think its more driver dependent than anything... I remember an e46 m3 almost going reverse on the back straight (sarcastic..). Maybe it was his first time, or maybe was only going comfortable at his own pace. I've passed JCW Mini's, S2000, 335's and more. But that really does not mean anything to me. Im still a beginner so my sessions are with beginners. The only thing I can think would make a difference would be A run groups or instructor run groups, because the levels of experience are similar. I've done ride alongs with a few instructors, and only one had an e30, I'll you right off the bat, he had the slowest car there and did not pass anyone, but that does not mean he does not know how to drive, that day we were surrounded by STI's and e92 M3s. But then Ive been in a Radical, and let me tell you this thing was about to take off lol...

[Mauisnow13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsVvkW2FH24

[Ian F]

I think its more driver dependent than anything...

Agreed. I've done runs with MINI's in my bone-stock TDI wagon with worn out all-seasons and had to keep from running over them in the twisty parts. Of course, with only 90 hp, even Coopers would drop me in the straights. It has more to do with experience and general comfort at speed on public roads... or even on the track as well. It's not that I'm necessarily a better driver, I just have a different experience level with risk. I did the same run with the E30 last year... and it wasn't even fun, and that was even with a faster group of MINI drivers in modified cars.

[Lurker27]

Grip is so very tire dependent. Star specs are amazing.

[mRodiek]

Ive been going to the canyons alot lately but Im not the best driver, I have bilstein/H&R sports with 205/50/15 Star Specs and I was basically dead even with a 240sx that had a FULLY rebuilt suspension & 17x9, 17x8s with wide tires. And I am still faster on the (few) straights, then again he has a stock KA lol

[Emre]

Therefore I have come to the track forum to ask you guys about what cars you have given a run for there money at the track as this would be a more controlled environment with a more accurate result...

I've been instructing with the BMW CCA and many other clubs for around 10 years now. You really can't compare cars until you get up to the Instructor group IMNSHO. Even in the Advanced group, driver skill is far to heterogeneous to draw any conclusions.

Let me put it to you this way. When I was driving a completely stock 2003 Lancer Evolution VIII on street tires (no modifications at all), I was at the front of the pack in the Instructor group at a typical BMW Club event at a typical track. In my heavily modified, track-prepped E30 with M20B25 engine, I'm at the back of the pack.

Which is more fun? Without question it's the E30. But that doesn't mean it's fast. Even with a full-race suspension, big-brake kit, and 225/45/15 R-compound tires, the car is slow by modern standards. There are some racers who are still front runners in their 2.5L E30 M3's, but those D-Mod M3's are essentially tube-frame cars and have been built without regard to cost.

A typical "driving school" car these days is an E46/36 M3 on coilovers with Stoptech big-brake kit and fat R-compounds (265mm wide 18-inchers in the case of the E46). Tough to compete with an E30, no matter how nicely built.

[Massimo]

I've been instructing with the BMW CCA and many other clubs for around 10 years now. You really can't compare cars until you get up to the Instructor group IMNSHO. Even in the Advanced group, driver skill is far to heterogeneous to draw any conclusions.

Let me put it to you this way. When I was driving a completely stock 2003 Lancer Evolution VIII on street tires (no modifications at all), I was at the front of the pack in the Instructor group at a typical BMW Club event at a typical track. In my heavily modified, track-prepped E30 with M20B25 engine, I'm at the back of the pack.

Which is more fun? Without question it's the E30. But that doesn't mean it's fast. Even with a full-race suspension, big-brake kit, and 225/45/15 R-compound tires, the car is slow by modern standards. There are some racers who are still front runners in their 2.5L E30 M3's, but those D-Mod M3's are essentially tube-frame cars and have been built without regard to cost.

A typical "driving school" car these days is an E46/36 M3 on coilovers with Stoptech big-brake kit and fat R-compounds (265mm wide 18-inchers in the case of the E46). Tough to compete with an E30, no matter how nicely built.

Yeh I would agree with you all the drivers experience is the major factor in this. So you would say that if A modified E30 was up against a stock E46 M3 with the same driver the E46 would come out on top. That is what I really want to know.

As I would like to build a track car, the E30 seems the way to go as it is such driver dependant seen I should have no trouble keep up with a few of the competitors in new cars.

[VinniE30]

What is the limiting factor with e30's here as far as the car's potential? The chassis itself? Thats really the only thing that can't be modified..

What about swapped e30's? Can they stack up to the newer cars?

Obviously talking hypothetically, driver independent.

[Wh33lhop]

^ Mainly the crude suspension design, lack of power and lack of room for rubber. A 245 is the widest I have seen anyone put on an E30 without putting huge flares on them--most do 225s or 235s tops.

Lol... I'm the buddy on hankooks.... Simple and effective mods have completely changed my car. I can post some video later today from the track. Obviously there's a margin of decent driver vs. Not-so-good driver with a fast car. Or you can search "high plains raceway r3v" in YouTube since I can't embed video from my phone. Car simply has 15x8 TR C1 wheels, 225/45-15 Hankook RS3s, a Mark D chip, and Ground Control single adjustable coils. Took a bunch of weight out of the car too. I've had similar experiences as ^^^^... people constantly come up to me in the put wondering how the hell I was keeping up or passing em. And my WRX and my STI were fun around town, but for track use, the BMW is more fun than either of em.

It would be interesting to do a track day with you. Same suspension, same wheels/tires, same number of doors and whores, but I've got swaybars, an extra cam and some extra weight.

Oh and my trans won't shift into 4th.