Star Spec 2's are out on Tirerack!

[BlackbirdM3]

ive heard a lot of people complain about RS3s at the marina autox, they never get warm enough and dont stay warm. but that probably bc it's pretty chilly there.

Tire temps are always an issue at Marina no matter what tire you run. The only way around it is with a co-driver/tire warmer. The only time I had an issue was a bright sunny day 70 degrees or so, and everyone on RS3s was skating around like they were driving on ice. Normally these same people are front runners in their classes (me included) We all just looked at each other with a WTF look. Yes, all of us were class back markers that day. I had a couple class wins on them down there in 50 degree and cloudy days. They work pretty well for me cold. That said, I've found 1.5 seconds on a re-run with them warm.

Will

[Cabriolet]

notice how the tread width of the z1 is slightly larger than the T1r, yet the section width is significantly larger on the z1? Do you understand how that can affect ones ability to fit the z1 on a car versus the T1r? If you only looked at tread width it would be easy to say it will fit no problem, but when you look at section width its pretty obvious its going to take some work to run the z1 if the T1r was a tight fit. Both tires in that pic are mounted on the same wheels.

I see your point. but you also have to be riding pretty low for that to be an issue.

[Nsquared97]

Thick sidewalls. I'd bet that they also have a bit of extra rubber on the shoulders.

Tire Rack doesn't have the Rival in stock yet, those numbers are just place holders until they can get real weights.

[Nsquared97]

So there has been more info released on the BFG Rival, and it's looking to be pretty promising. Andy Hollis had this to say:

Back from Daytona...sorry for the delay. Working on getting tires to test for GRM, but dates are fluid.

At the launch event, I was the lucky dog. I was there a day early for some on-camera interviews, and while watching the BFG lead test driver gathering on-track comparison data between the Rival and a set of Z2's they had just acquired, I was asked if I wanted a go at it. Hmmm...let me think...yeah, sure ok. With only one set on hand, the Z2 was not used in the main event at all.

Preface: Prior to this I had zero on-track time at NOLA and none in an MX5 Cup car. Plus, the car didn't quite fit right (I have short legs). But with the Rivals on the car I came up to speed pretty quickly on the track...or so I thought. Their test driver and I swapped seats and he promptly showed me that I was not pushing the tires nearly enough. There was a whole nuther level that I was not exploring, as I had been backing off when I started to hear some squeal and feel some slip angle build. Turns out, the Rival is a massive talker (like the Kumho XS) and will deliver even when slip angles get quite large. The latter is similar to an R1R, except in the case of the Rival, you aren't destroying the tire as you run that large of an angle.

I then did another 6 laps or so by myself and got to the real limits. For example, 90 mph through the backside esses with total confidence. After that, we swapped to the Z2 and I tried to replicate what i had been doing with the Rival for another 10 laps. First couple of times I turned in, I had to turn right back out again....as first one end, and then other end of the car would get upset. The Z2 is very peaky in its grip delivery versus slip angle, while the Rival has a broad plateau. And with a well-balanced car like the MX5, you have to keep both ends of the car in the narrower band with the Z2 in order to stay at max lateral. That also makes it more setup dependent, whereas the Rival will likely be more setup-agnostic. I never got the car out of sorts with the Rival, but got each end to misbehave with the Z2.

In short, the Rival is a bolt-on-and-go performance enhancer for the "everyman", whereas the Z2 is more of a delicate instrument that can perhaps be careful wielded by a "skilled professional" to great effect. And some of the things that make the Z2 less confidence-inspiring on the track, may actually make it more lively on an autocross course. If you can handle it.

Bottom line: I was a full second faster on the Rival than the Z2 on a 2:08 lap time. And more consistent.

As for heat, discussion with the engineers suggested that the tire did not need a lot of heat to work, yet could tolerate it well. We did overheat a set on the BMW E46's with many back-to-back runs. I was first driver out and got back in later after a couple dozen runs (and smoking brakes) and the car drove nothing like it did earlier.

My takeaway is that BFG built a better RS3. Doesn't need heat to work. Tolerates lots of heat. Will work at least passably in the wet. Wears like iron. Easy to drive. Consistent and confidence inspiring.

Remember when the Kumho V710 first came out? It made heros out of zeroes. The Rival is like that in its driveability, if not in overall grip level.

Oh yeah, and for those claiming the Rival is some sort of cheater r-comp: baloney. Not only does it meet the rules, the 200 treadwear is no joke. The thing wears even better than an RS3 despite being abused. Truly incredible. And when compared on a skid pad to the R1-S r-comp and Comp 2 street tire, it fell much closer in grip to the Comp 2. .95 vs 1.0 vs 1.2g.

Truly glowing reports on this tire all around, which makes me wonder, how were they able to leap frog the competition in so many ways? Most people are cynical and realize there are going to be trade offs, but you have described the perfect tire: Works without heat, can be pushed hard, good feel, predictable, hard wearing.. So what is the tradeoff, or have they unleashed a special new compound their chemists have cooked up and everyone else will be playing catchup?

Cynics everywhere.

1) It has been 5-6 years since this grouping of tires has been refreshed. That is a loooong time in the tire industry and there are new innovations every where.

2) Have you read the TR product page for the Rival yet? if not, do so...then come back. I'll wait.

Yes, some of the result comes from compromise. BFG took a page from the Hankook RS3 & Kuhmo XS book in that regard, as they compromised deep wet grip for dry. But they also employed a number of small tread and carcass construction features that combine to enhance both performance (flatter tread face, wrap-around tread shoulders) and wear (angled void channels & rounded corners). These are all small things that add up to bigger results. Kinda like adding 1% hp ten times for a 10% increase.

They also chose a high-silica based tread compound. Know what that is? Sand. Delivers outstanding wear while still remaining pliable enough to work across a broad range of temps. Do some googling on that and you'll find how that tech has evolved.

Dunlop, OTOH, took a more traditional evolutionary approach, building on the success of their existing offering. Compounding gives the new Z2 better wet performance, and internal changes alter the peak of the grip/slip curve for better dry performance.

That said, is this tire the equal to the old Victoracer? Might be. I'd venture to guess that all of the current offerings are. Just as they are better than the pure racing slicks of the 70's. But that doesn't change their suitability for street use.

Tire Rack:

Last week, a few fellow Tire Rack sales specialists and I had the opportunity to test the new BFGoodrich g-Force Rival at its official release. The event was held at NOLA Motorsports Park outside of New Orleans, Louisiana. Testing involved low-speed and high-speed autocross, as well as open track testing on a road course. While we haven't received the tire in stock (along with freezing temperatures in Indiana) to complete a full test on our track, my initial impressions were very favorable. It was composed, stable under lateral cornering load and had the grip level expected of an Extreme Performance Summer tire.

The tire was also very quick to respond to changes in steering input and extremely stable under high speed braking. After my brief time with the tire, it looks to be a front runner this year in its category. We were impressed with how well the g-Force Rival fared against its competitors while in New Orleans.

Pre-orders have now begun for this new tire, which will debut with 15 sizes with rim dimensions ranging between 15 and 20 inches and 205 and 335 section widths. Per BFGoodrich, "The tire will help BFGoodrich target a growing market of drivers seeking extreme performance tires which are versatile enough to be used in auto-cross and track-day events then driven home. The tires have a 200 UTQG Rating (Uniform Tire Quality Grade) which allows them to be used in racing where drivers must compete on 140+ UTQG tires."

http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/motorsport-messages-from-marshall/bfgoodrich-g-force-rival-first-test-and-impressions

Very curious to see what happens when GRM tests the new crop of extreme summer tires, very cool to have such a large selection of great rubber!

[peytonracer4]

are the starspecs really that good? i run bridgestone re760s on my e46 and while i know they're not an "autocross tire" they're what i already had as secondary wheels so i used them. they gripped pretty decently and i managed to place second (tied for first) in my class first year out.

would i really benifit by switching to starspecs or even the new z2? i just don't know how good they really are.

daily driving i use michelin PSS so you can use those as a reference point

[akorcovelos]

The z1 would absolutly spank your Bridgestones or Michelins.

[kts]

the z1 would absolutly spank your bridgestones or michelins.

+1

[graphikg]

I think I am going for the Rivals when my current tires go out. Seem like a good deal and will do the job. Plus, I am on 15s and I dont think the zIIs are going to cut it though the entire autoX world loves those already.

[R3Z3N]

For us 17" wheel users, it looks like we will have very little luck with the Rivals.

[bastianshaw]

So there has been more info released on the BFG Rival, and it's looking to be pretty promising. Andy Hollis had this to say:




Tire Rack:

http://blog.tirerack.com/blog/motorsport-messages-from-marshall/bfgoodrich-g-force-rival-first-test-and-impressions

Very curious to see what happens when GRM tests the new crop of extreme summer tires, very cool to have such a large selection of great rubber!

sounds like a company man too me

[z31maniac]

For us 17" wheel users, it looks like we will have very little luck with the Rivals.

Roll/pull fenders, don't run Stance ride heights and slap the 245/40 on a 17x8.

[Wh33lhop]

Roll/pull fenders, don't run Stance ride heights and slap the 245/40 on a 17x8.

...in 3-4 months. ;) 225/45s are coming soon though.

[z31maniac]

Si! A bit short for E30s, but perfect for me.

Other than I'm already on R-comps. Although, I'm considering if I should go back to street tires on the next set and keep working on my skills that way.

It will depend on how close I can get to my theoretical best time while remaining consistent.

[peytonracer4]

The z1 would absolutly spank your Bridgestones or Michelins.

really...? it would spank the michelins too? i have a hard time believing that.

[Wh33lhop]

really...? it would spank the michelins too? i have a hard time believing that.

The Michelins are very good all around tires, but they are still compromised. They also overheat very quickly. Z1s do not.