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How does a STOCK E30 compare on the track to...?

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    How does a STOCK E30 compare on the track to...?

    Not sure if my thread title makes sense but I wanted to know how a stock E30 318 handles compared to other cars in stock form in an autocross or HPDE.

    Would like to really know what a completely stock 318 compares to in terms of handling. Is it in the same class as: 914, 944, RX7, 240Z/SX?

    #2
    It's gods chariot!

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      #3
      Originally posted by capn View Post
      ...completely stock 318 compares to in terms of handling. Is it in the same class as: 914, 944, RX7, 240Z/SX?
      Nobody tracks or autocrosses those cars stock, unless you count SCCA "stock" class with $2,000 shocks and R-compound tires. Unmodified, they would probably wallow like a pig, similar to a stock E30 on 25-year-old shocks, wallered-out cracked bushings, and tall-sidewall, bald, hardened all-season tires. I have autocrossed an E30 per that description, and it was much slower than a generic modern rental car.
      "If the sky were to fall tomorrow, the tall would die first."

      -Dr. Paul Forrester



      Do I LOOK like I need a psychological evaluation???

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        #4
        Originally posted by funcrew View Post
        Nobody tracks or autocrosses those cars stock, unless you count SCCA "stock" class with $2,000 shocks and R-compound tires. Unmodified, they would probably wallow like a pig, similar to a stock E30 on 25-year-old shocks, wallered-out cracked bushings, and tall-sidewall, bald, hardened all-season tires. I have autocrossed an E30 per that description, and it was much slower than a generic modern rental car.
        Let's assume the shocks, springs, bushings, and tires were all replaced with comparable OEM quality parts, would it still be slow as a rental car? :)

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          #5
          Yes.
          Originally posted by kronus
          would be in depending on tip slant and tube size

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            #6
            Why not try auto crossing your car and find out how it feels ... Also driver makes a big difference ...
            Buy e30 cup holders
            http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...41#post4159541

            Buy BMW Motosports handles
            http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=302846

            Buy BMW MOTORSPORT valve covers http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=330146

            sigpic

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              #7
              Took a friends 325i autotragic up to the canyons to see what we were working with. Needless to say wasnt pretty. Brakes were about to set on fire by the time we got to the other end.

              NEW ERA AUTO GLASS - SFV SOCAL - 818 974-3673
              DREWLIENTE

              1$ PShops PM me

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                #8
                I have a solution for stock 318is:

                We have three of them running locally (ok, mine is an M10 car with M42 swap, but same difference). Mine is far from stock, but the other two are "pretty much" stock except with some Bilstein HDs and different tires...Stock tall suspension is your friend anyhow.

                Oh, and at the last event the M42 cars beat all three of the 6-cyl e30s there. RX is where weight balance really comes in useful. We run pretty similar to RX7s (the main competition in this area), and all the other RWD cars (all older stuff) that come out are slower, aside from a 2nd gen V6-swapped MR2 that used to attend.

                Plus it's way more fun than autocross. Get some cheap snow tires and run in stock class and you will be reasonably competitive unless there are some ringers in your region with BRZ's or something.....

                This one is more or less stock:
                Stage rally/rallycross e30 build/competition journal
                Track/street e21 build
                visit Condor Speed Shop
                visit Motorsport Hardware



                [FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"] 1985 318i/M50 Rally Car - 1988 Porsche 924S - 2005 Sequoia tow pig - 2018 GTI

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                  #9
                  Also, FWIW this M42 car was pretty quick at Summit Point LeMons. Not sure what is done to it but since it's Lemons, it woudl have to be pretty minimal. I want to say it was top-20 out of 100+ car field (which admittedly isn't saying THAT much for Lemons, but whatever).

                  Stage rally/rallycross e30 build/competition journal
                  Track/street e21 build
                  visit Condor Speed Shop
                  visit Motorsport Hardware



                  [FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"] 1985 318i/M50 Rally Car - 1988 Porsche 924S - 2005 Sequoia tow pig - 2018 GTI

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Since you've already got yourself a 318is why not just put on some quality shocks/springs and just do it. Do a search - I am sure there lots of good advice from folks who've already done it. I love the way my E30 cars handle, similar to 944 and 968 cars actually.

                    My $.02 is based on my DE experience with a 1989 Porsche 944 Turbo S...totally stock 247 hp @ 3000 lbs. I had a blast with that car doing DEs for a few years until I put her into a wall at Road America...dumbass driver's fault. Try a few autocrosses and then find a track without too many concrete walls. The DE someday club race car I am building now is a 1994 968 but this time I am going all out with Recaro seats / Schroth 6 pt harnesses / Moton Clubsport shocks / 800/1000 lb coilovers and torsion bar delete / Racers Edge everything including spherical bearings / M030 adjustable swaybars / 18 in CCW forged wheels and down the $lope I go.... and when the car is done...I will take a few driving lessons.
                    1989 325iX Zinnoberrot/Black 65k miles

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                      #11
                      I autocrossed my 325iS when it was stock (and largely original) a handful of times. Two words come to mind: BODY ROLL. It can be a lot of fun working out when to lift to shift all the weight to the front wheels so you can turn in.

                      The M20 gives the car enough power to keep it from being completely hopeless. There's generally enough torque to pull you out of situations where the sloppy suspension might keep your cornering speeds down.

                      With an M42, I wouldn't expect to be super competitive. I haven't autocrossed any 4-cyl E30s except the M3, but I bet they wouldn't have that low-RPM pull that the M20 provides. Unfortunately, E30s are heavy enough, you wouldn't be able to rely on pure cornering speed the way a Miata driver can.

                      Now, go prove me wrong and take lots of pictures...

                      The Great Big M20 Timing Belt DIY

                      Some good information I've found online (no affiliation):
                      Turbo Tech (Garrett)
                      Four-cycle information and cam properties for beginners (ISKY Racing Cams)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Actually, if you look at Chump Car/Lemons you could probably find some fair comparisons..

                        The problem is you are comparing basically sports cars to a sedan.

                        The RX7/914 is going to be better balanced in stock form since those were designed with better weight distribution in mind, and will in factory form get closer to equal cross weight than a nose heavy E30.

                        The 240 and 944 are going to probably be able to carry more speed down the straight vs. a 318 due to aerodynamic advantage (since we are in essence still trying to push a brick through the air.)

                        All being stock, I would actually take the RX7 or 914 to best the rest. Having driven an RX7 for our Chumpcar (not stock) vs. my PRO3/SE30 car, the RX7 is easier to put where you want it in a corner.
                        1984 Alpina B6 2.8/1 #35
                        1991 325i MT2 Touring (JDM bro)
                        1991 Racecar (Chase Schmidt's former drift car - M30)
                        2006 BMW X3
                        2011 Audi A3 - wife's other German car

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by djjerme View Post

                          The RX7/914 is going to be better balanced in stock form since those were designed with better weight distribution in mind, and will in factory form get closer to equal cross weight than a nose heavy E30.
                          The 4-cyl e30s have a 51:49 weight balance in stock form (RX7 is 50:50). So I wouldn't say that's a major difference.

                          That said, the only car in my class that has beaten me in rallycross this year is.....an RX7. :P
                          Stage rally/rallycross e30 build/competition journal
                          Track/street e21 build
                          visit Condor Speed Shop
                          visit Motorsport Hardware



                          [FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"] 1985 318i/M50 Rally Car - 1988 Porsche 924S - 2005 Sequoia tow pig - 2018 GTI

                          Comment


                            #14
                            So is it safe to assume stock E36 325i and E46 325i (both with sport package) would get owned by a stock E30 318is in a rally/autox/road course?

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by capn View Post
                              So is it safe to assume stock E36 325i and E46 325i (both with sport package) would get owned by a stock E30 318is in a rally/autox/road course?
                              All depends on the driver. I autox my 318is. The car had (I've changed some things recently so its a totally different car....still M42 though) springs, shocks, rear bar, all new suspension bushings (OEM....not poly) and a Turner chip. I was VERY competitive against a Focus ST driven by another instructor.

                              The car can be very quick if it has a few upgrades. Will you win lots of races....probably not. But YOU WILL learn to drive a relatively "slow" car fast which is more fun than driving a fast car slow. Driving cars like this, especially in stock form, make you way better of a driver than starting with a properly prepped car that can "mask" mistakes.

                              Just do it and have fun.....competitive or not :)

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