I'm looking to see what you guys have to say about different suspension's. I am looking for the best possible track setup. I have recently put bilstein shocks/struts on my car along with eibach pro kit springs but I want to up the game a lot. I'm thinking about rebuilding the shocks/struts for a stiffer spring rate, or debating on if I should get coils. The coils I would get are between h&r, st(kw), or isc's. Also have questions about how wide of a wheel/tire you guys use and offset. I am going to do some fender wprk as well. Thanks
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Originally posted by Cbruh View PostI'm looking to see what you guys have to say about different suspension's. I am looking for the best possible track setup. I have recently put bilstein shocks/struts on my car along with eibach pro kit springs but I want to up the game a lot. I'm thinking about rebuilding the shocks/struts for a stiffer spring rate, or debating on if I should get coils. The coils I would get are between h&r, st(kw), or isc's. Also have questions about how wide of a wheel/tire you guys use and offset. I am going to do some fender wprk as well. Thanks
Bilstein Sports + H&R Race springs is an excellent track suspension (it's the SpecE30 race suspension!) Koni Yellows + Springs is also a popular and good combo.
If you're looking to waste your money and hate your back/kidneys: JOM, BC Racing, Megan Racing, insert-fly-by-night-company-here, Raceland, Stance, etc. <$1000 price point. Buy springs and shocks instead.
If you want street suspension that is made for low and looks not fast and track: ISC/ST/KW V1, $1000 ish.
If you're looking for something adjustable in rebound and ride height: Ground Control SA or TC Kline SA or KW V2 or Bilstein PSS9, all between $1500-2000. AST I would put in this category if you can buy them any more.
If you're looking for affordable and good quality rebound and compression adjustment and know what that affects TC Kline DA, KW V3, GC DAs if they make them still. $2000-$3000
If you're looking for a premium single adjustable damper, or are looking to do this once and be done: MCS SA, JRZ RS1. $3000-$4000 for a complete kit
If you want premium damper capability with rebound and compression adjustments: MCS DA, JRZ RS2, Ohlins DA, $5000-$8000
If you're competing at the pointy end of the grid for actual money or championships: Same suspects, triple adjustables, $7000+
The more you spend, the better the damper is at controlling sharp bumps and blowing off over impacts, which translates to better grip. Better dampers also can be turned very soft and compliant for better rain/wet track grip. They also manage tire contact patch better. This is all with one huge caveat: the car and suspension must be set up properly, otherwise you've wasted your money and time.
None of the suspensions you list are appreciably better for someone starting to track their car than good springs and struts. You don't need coilovers until you've got quite a few track days under your belt, at which point you'll be more able to identify deficiencies in your car and solve them. And ISC/H&R coils have pretty much zero people running them hard and frequently, on track. There is a big reason why most track folk flock to the same three or four brands, depending on the price point.
Bolting on $10,000 suspension won't make the car any faster if you don't know how to drive; in fact, it will likely make it a whole hell of a lot harder to drive fast.Last edited by Bimmerman325i; 02-09-2016, 01:10 PM.
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best possible
If you're just learning, track it as it is first, and see how you do.
Because there are half a hundred 'best' ways to go, and they all depend
on you, and what you want the car to do.
But for serious track time, going to a 2 1/2" front spring with camber plates
is really about the first step AFTER you've ground the outside edge off a couple
of sets of tires.
tnow, sometimes I just mess with people. It's more entertaining that way. george graves
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Well the thing is I can get kw coils for $530 and isc's for $790. That's why I was considering those two.I haven't really heard of isc but my friend has the track dampering isc's on his 2.5RS and says they are really good. I uploaded some info about them. I've also heard really good things about kw. Kw makes the st coils. Anyway this is why I was considering getting them. I will be purchasing c1 15x8 wheels for my e30 as well:Dhttp://www.bavauto.com/fland.asp?part=B013&utm_source=google&utm_medium=c se&utm_term=B013-T-325ES-1988-656528&gclid=CjwKEAiAuea1BRCbn-2n7PbLgEMSJAABQvTTRubrSXIYe8WV4dFlEcCtMtQFUcgHnj6p h9XRFmTDERoC_Avw_wcBLast edited by Cbruh; 02-09-2016, 01:36 PM.
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The "best" track coilovers on a relatively low budget will be Ground Control with Koni Race dampers (DA if you can afford it; but SA is good enough probably).
Originally posted by Cbruh View PostWell the thing is I can get kw coils for $530 and isc's for $790. That's why I was considering those two.
Originally posted by Cbruh View PostI haven't really heard of isc but my friend has the track dampering isc's on his 2.5RS and says they are really good.sigpic
1987 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16: Vintage Racer
2010 BMW (E90) 335xi sedan: Grocery Getter
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Originally posted by Bimmerman325i View PostThere are a lot of posts on this subject, but as a quick primer:
Bilstein Sports + H&R Race springs is an excellent track suspension (it's the SpecE30 race suspension!) Koni Yellows + Springs is also a popular and good combo.
If you're looking to waste your money and hate your back/kidneys: JOM, BC Racing, Megan Racing, insert-fly-by-night-company-here, Raceland, Stance, etc. <$1000 price point. Buy springs and shocks instead.
If you want street suspension that is made for low and looks not fast and track: ISC/ST/KW V1, $1000 ish.
If you're looking for something adjustable in rebound and ride height: Ground Control SA or TC Kline SA or KW V2 or Bilstein PSS9, all between $1500-2000. AST I would put in this category if you can buy them any more.
If you're looking for affordable and good quality rebound and compression adjustment and know what that affects TC Kline DA, KW V3, GC DAs if they make them still. $2000-$3000
If you're looking for a premium single adjustable damper, or are looking to do this once and be done: MCS SA, JRZ RS1. $3000-$4000 for a complete kit
If you want premium damper capability with rebound and compression adjustments: MCS DA, JRZ RS2, Ohlins DA, $5000-$8000
If you're competing at the pointy end of the grid for actual money or championships: Same suspects, triple adjustables, $7000+
The more you spend, the better the damper is at controlling sharp bumps and blowing off over impacts, which translates to better grip. Better dampers also can be turned very soft and compliant for better rain/wet track grip. They also manage tire contact patch better. This is all with one huge caveat: the car and suspension must be set up properly, otherwise you've wasted your money and time.
None of the suspensions you list are appreciably better for someone starting to track their car than good springs and struts. You don't need coilovers until you've got quite a few track days under your belt, at which point you'll be more able to identify deficiencies in your car and solve them. And ISC/H&R coils have pretty much zero people running them hard and frequently, on track. There is a big reason why most track folk flock to the same three or four brands, depending on the price point.
Bolting on $10,000 suspension won't make the car any faster if you don't know how to drive; in fact, it will likely make it a whole hell of a lot harder to drive fast.Originally posted by Emre View PostThe "best" track coilovers on a relatively low budget will be Ground Control with Koni Race dampers (DA if you can afford it; but SA is good enough probably).
The quality of the dampers is the most critical thing. Simple Koni SA (yellows) are better than low-end coilovers using junk dampers.
Your friend sounds like someone who doesn't know enough about the subject to give any advice. Those ISC's are for the "street tuning" crowd...not serious track use.
Also, make sure you get adjustable swaybar endlinks and make sure you swaybars are clean/greased and not bound up... Corner balancing would be wise as well. A large percentage of people just buy coilovers, eyeball the ride height/measure the arches and go and it just doesn't work that way.- '88 m54 coupe
<3
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I currently have bilstien shocks/struts on the car with eibach pro kit lowering springs. I'm in between buying h&r race springs or isc coilovers. I know 2 people who know how to properly set them up for the track also. I can get the isc's for $790. Thsts the only reason why I'm considering them. I was looking on their page and looked them up for my car. Here's the info. Let me know what you think.
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You've asked this three times now, the answer hasn't changed.
They are cheap. Expect them to perform like cheap bottom-tier generic coilovers. They will damp bumps and suspend mass, but they will not be the same caliber as KONI yellows or likely Bilsteins+springs.
A full coilover kit, including springs, dampers, spring adjusters, camber plates, and shock mounts, that costs less than just good dampers does (aka...KONI/bilstein) will not perform on the same level or even close.
This doesn't mean go buy a $5k setup. This is to encourage you to think critically. How can they sell a full suspension for the cost of a set of Konis? What are you compromising on? Who else that tracks, seriously, in your model car, runs them? Do some research into what is available for your car, at your budget, and for your needs.
If all you want is to be low and get the mad instagram twitter likes and hashtags, those coils will work. If you want your car to handle well on a track and not suck on the street, I would look elsewhere and at roughly double that price point.
What is your budget? How will you use the car? Why do you think your current suspension is insufficient?
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Originally posted by Cbruh View PostI currently have bilstien shocks/struts on the car with eibach pro kit lowering springs.
Originally posted by Cbruh View PostI can get the isc's for $790. Thsts the only reason why I'm considering them.
Originally posted by Cbruh View PostI know 2 people who know how to properly set them up for the track also.
Go to any BMW CCA CR, NASA, SCCA, or other race where people run BMWs. See how many people are on ISC coilovers.sigpic
1987 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16: Vintage Racer
2010 BMW (E90) 335xi sedan: Grocery Getter
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^ Good advice on the Bilstein/J-stock setup, but you would need to have them re-valved for the J-stocks. Stock Bilstein Sport valving can't handle the J-stock rates. Good news is Bilstein re-valves are pretty inexpensive and you'd end up with a pretty awesome matched setup- '88 m54 coupe
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Before any of this or spending any money - how much "experience" do you have on track?
I can probably bet that the current suspension on your car is not what's holding it back..
Are you going to go actual "racing", or just be content with Track Days? Because going real racing (I mean wheel to wheel) is a whole different ball park from just turning laps as fast as you can..
More often then not, if you are making this jump, then there is restrictions on what you can use for setup. Notice I said setup. It's not just a matter of jamming some coilovers on an tossing the car around (though some of us pretty much do that anyways.) The entire car is a setup and affects handling: Suspension, weight placement, aero..etc.
Everything affects everything else.
How serious are you at this, and how much time and money are you willing to put in to this?1991 325i MT2 Touring (JDM bro)
2016 Ford Flex
2011 Audi A3 - wife's other German car
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Originally posted by Jb325is View Post^ Good advice on the Bilstein/J-stock setup, but you would need to have them re-valved for the J-stocks. Stock Bilstein Sport valving can't handle the J-stock rates.
I was doing 20+ track days a year in those days and did tons of street and track driving without any issues. As long as the Bilsteins are relatively new (not worn out), they'll hold up fine for quite a while.sigpic
1987 Mercedes 190E 2.3-16: Vintage Racer
2010 BMW (E90) 335xi sedan: Grocery Getter
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