Motorsports Shock options for e30's- Anyone looked into Bilstein? (No, not B8 sports)

**FredK** · 06-24-2016, 05:31 AM

I've seen those in Bilstein's catalog as well! I think the top needs to be machined for a strut hat nut and some assembly is required, so I didn't look into it too far.

I have 5 lug, so I did think of maybe using the E36 Group N damper (K4-VE3-64175M0). I don't really want to sell my suspension parts, though.

**Jb325is** · 06-24-2016, 05:51 AM

yeah I'm alright with the DIY part of it, I was kind of looking for something like that. I like having the ability to make these fit off the shelf GC camber plates.

The Group N stuff looks to be similarly priced, we are sticking with stock e30 geometry though. Running 5 lug sleeve kit with e46 m3 brakes

**Jb325is** · 07-14-2016, 05:09 PM

Just an update on this, I started messing around in solidworks and quickly found the issue that most people probably run into- lack of material on the spindle, at the base of the strut tube.

The Bilstein insert would be a good option, but it is not currently available with an adjustable (single or double) shaft. Once that option is available, which should be the end of this year or so according to Bilstein NA in North Carolina, the price per damper is going to be ~600-700. Not cheap, and you're still going to be doing a decent amount of fab work to get things working correctly. Koni also has a motorsports strut that is adjustable, and supposedly available, but I didn't really explore that option to be honest, because I realized for roughly the same amount of money, I could get into a "turn-key" setup.

At the end of the day, looks like the race car is going to end up with MCS's.

**BlackbirdM3** · 07-14-2016, 10:23 PM

What spring rate are you shooting for? For sprint races I'd bet a set of Koni sports or Bilsteins that were revalved for the correct spring rate. The Turner J stock springs are 640/1080 and the Bilsteins were revlaved for them. I have a set of those but I haven't used them, opting instead for my TC Klein revalved Koni sports. I couldn't ask for a better setup.

Will

**Northern** · 07-15-2016, 01:09 PM

For the (well, less) money, Koni's (.5" shorter than the iX insert) 8610-1437 Race(SA)/8611-1437 Race(DA) seems like a lot of damper for the money:

KONI NA | Motorsports

http://www.koniracing.com/8611.cfm

KONI is the world leader in adjustable shock absorber technology with over 50 years of worldwide racing success.

**Bimmerman325i** · 07-15-2016, 02:01 PM

I've had TCK DA, AST 4100, and now MCS DA. The MCS blow the AST and TCKs out of the water on track, though I still prefer how the TCKs felt on the road.

If you're looking to buy an endgame-level track suspension, I highly recommend it. If you're not looking to spend that kind of coin (understandably!) then the TCK/GC/KW options are hard to beat. The TCK Koni (DA) are great shocks, but the MCSs are just phenomenal. Bump control, kerb control, weight transfer, response...it's noticeably just better. On the street, they're more hyperactive than the TCK Koni kits are, which isn't a plus IMO.

I haven't used the J stock or Bilsteins so won't comment beyond saying I suspect that would be a great setup if you don't want to deal with adjusting things, or have car classing issues to deal with.

If you are very interested in more customized Bilstein applications, call up Vorshlag-- they're a Billy Motorsport dealer.

at the risk of rambling on ad nauseam: MCS is unicorn-farts awesome, TCK/GC stuff is very very good and half the cost, custom Bilsteins might work but who knows.

**Jb325is** · 07-25-2016, 02:35 PM

Just to update this, we ended up going with MCS 2-way remotes. I have a good amount of experience with these from an engineering/tuning perspective, and I am excited to start tuning on them from the seat. I think I could have "saved" a little money building a set of motorsports struts and using an off the shelf Bilstein rear, but the end product would be nowhere close to the MCS

I do think that people should look further into some of these motorsports struts for a track car type application, for someone who doesn't mind putting some time and thought into building a setup you can really put together something pretty decent and come in between GC and MCS price-wise I think.

Our setup so far is MCS built front struts with GC race plates (for 14mm rod) and MCS non-coilover rears with AKG spherical upper mounts. Starting off with 6" 600lb front springs and 5" 800 rear. The shocks can handle a good bit more, but I'm going to try to get the car working with a more compliant setup. I think one mistake a lot of people make is thinking racecars automatically require 1000lb+ springs and just fight with an overly stiff car all along.

**dsphil** · 07-25-2016, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by BlackbirdM3

What spring rate are you shooting for? For sprint races I'd bet a set of Koni sports or Bilsteins that were revalved for the correct spring rate. The Turner J stock springs are 640/1080 and the Bilsteins were revlaved for them. I have a set of those but I haven't used them, opting instead for my TC Klein revalved Koni sports. I couldn't ask for a better setup.

Will

I see conflicting information regarding to the J stock rates from voshlag. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...icE8Uzcm_Q/pub

They tested no where near 640/1080. Has anyone try 5.5" OD or 5.75" OD oval track front springs from hypercoil, Afco, or eibach? Will they even fit the 4.5" top hat.

**Emre** · 07-26-2016, 03:36 AM

J-stock springs aren't linear, so I'm not sure how you can compare the rates to regular coilover springs. They initially compress before yielding their "true" rate.

**Jb325is** · 07-26-2016, 05:53 AM

Pretty off topic, I'm sure there are plenty of J stock threads around

**vitiokas95** · 07-26-2016, 06:46 AM

Currently I am running GC coilovers on my race e30 with Koni single adjustable shocks, don't really remember spring rate. Planning to upgrade to double adjustable shocks this winter. My only option I found is Koni double adjustables. I am ready to spend more money on something better. Is it possible to get MCS 2 ways or ASTs to replace my Koni GC set up? Just inserts

**Jb325is** · 07-26-2016, 05:52 PM

Not really. It looks like the MCS requires a more involved modification to the strut housing than the AST, but the cost is similar. MCS removes the e30 strut tube from the spindle, and welds in their own tube which is then machined to accept all of the fiddly bits. This process normally takes a month or two I think, but my shocks were actually in stock when I was ready to order so there was no wait. I did give them a nice set of cores as well, so they may be building another e30 set soon. It looks like AST still uses the stock e30 strut tube, but modifies the top of the housing to accept their proprietary top nut/wiper.

Regarding the differences between the two, I don't have a first hand driving opinion of my own (yet) but I spend a lot of time with pro drivers of varying degrees, as well as engineers that know a lot more than I do about shocks and setup... and the ones whose opinions I value most LOVE the MCS's and are not as impressed with the AST's. I also have a lot of experience tuning on them, again with guys that can actually feel and setup a car, and the adjustments are perfectly incremental and consistent... They always do what we're expecting them to.

My understanding is that MCS was formed by a couple guys that used to work for Moton and JRZ... Moton was bought out and AST's are more-or-less Motons as they were, while MCS are kind of a next generation version, but similar.

Here is pic of our housings

20160715_165324 by Jonathan braswell, on Flickr

**Bimmerman325i** · 07-26-2016, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by Jb325is

Regarding the differences between the two, I don't have a first hand driving opinion of my own (yet) but I spend a lot of time with pro drivers of varying degrees, as well as engineers that know a lot more than I do about shocks and setup... and the ones whose opinions I value most LOVE the MCS's and are not as impressed with the AST's. I also have a lot of experience tuning on them, again with guys that can actually feel and setup a car, and the adjustments are perfectly incremental and consistent... They always do what we're expecting them to.

Agreed. I had ASTs, wasn't that impressed by them (albeit, on a Subaru). I have MCSs and they really are better. More consistent in adjustments, better quality (had issues with my ASTs), better bump control, etc. Just better. You'd expect that though, given the price discrepancy. The ASTs weren't bad, once they worked, but they are not as good as the MCSs.

Originally posted by Jb325is

My understanding is that MCS was formed by a couple guys that used to work for Moton and JRZ... Moton was bought out and AST's are more-or-less Motons as they were, while MCS are kind of a next generation version, but similar.

Sort of. AST bought Moton, and kept the product lines separate. Some Moton tech may have trickled down into the 4x50 lineup, but not the 4x00s or 5x00s from what I've heard.

Once Moton was bought, the head/founder of Moton and the head/founder of JRZ, at least the US branches, founded MCS. As a result, MCSs are really an evolved old-Moton/JRZ, and are incredibly popular among the club/pro levels that favored old-Moton and JRZ.

/shock nerd

**vitiokas95** · 07-26-2016, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by Jb325is

Not really. It looks like the MCS requires a more involved modification to the strut housing than the AST, but the cost is similar. MCS removes the e30 strut tube from the spindle, and welds in their own tube which is then machined to accept all of the fiddly bits. This process normally takes a month or two I think, but my shocks were actually in stock when I was ready to order so there was no wait. I did give them a nice set of cores as well, so they may be building another e30 set soon. It looks like AST still uses the stock e30 strut tube, but modifies the top of the housing to accept their proprietary top nut/wiper.

Regarding the differences between the two, I don't have a first hand driving opinion of my own (yet) but I spend a lot of time with pro drivers of varying degrees, as well as engineers that know a lot more than I do about shocks and setup... and the ones whose opinions I value most LOVE the MCS's and are not as impressed with the AST's. I also have a lot of experience tuning on them, again with guys that can actually feel and setup a car, and the adjustments are perfectly incremental and consistent... They always do what we're expecting them to.

My understanding is that MCS was formed by a couple guys that used to work for Moton and JRZ... Moton was bought out and AST's are more-or-less Motons as they were, while MCS are kind of a next generation version, but similar.

Here is pic of our housings

20160715_165324 by Jonathan braswell, on Flickr

Would you mind sharing who did you deal with at MCS, their contact info? PM or post here

Motorsports Shock options for e30's- Anyone looked into Bilstein? (No, not B8 sports)

Motorsports Shock options for e30's- Anyone looked into Bilstein? (No, not B8 sports)

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