Coilovers question

[BlackbirdM3]

@Blackbird, I think that's apples to oranges. The Vorshlag SpecE30 plate is different because SpecE30 rules require the use of the OEM upper spring perch. These ones you pictured are a nice design though, for those using stock diameter springs but not racing in SpecE30.

ANY race series should have the sense to run parts that work and work correctly. Otherwise what is the point? I think the Vorshlag ones are stock hats that they modify (I might be wrong.) Either way, the Vorshlag design is far better than the GC design.

Will

[Digitalwave]

@Blackbird, I think that's apples to oranges. The Vorshlag SpecE30 plate is different because SpecE30 rules require the use of the OEM upper spring perch. These ones you pictured are a nice design though, for those using stock diameter springs but not racing in SpecE30.

[BlackbirdM3]

I completely understand how the Vorshlag design won't bind on the top of the spring perch since they are 11mm taller than the GC design (whether that is a feature or not is debatable), but I don't see how their design is any different when it comes to the center of the spring perch. In what way do you say the GC design doesn't support the center of the plate, and how is the Vorshlag different?

Full disclosure: I haven't even received my GC plates yet. I have IE plates on the car right now. I chose GC over Vorshlag only because I am trying to lower the front of my car more to get more static camber, and the GC design is the thinnest on the market.

The Vorshlag spring hats are one piece and fit into the camber plates. Its the very center of the hat the fails, right around where the strut seats that fails on the GC parts. This would appear to not be an issue with the Vorshlag ones since the whole center of the hat is supported.



Will

[ed94r]

J-stocks aren't linear springs as far as I know.

The struts do not need to be cut for the Bilstein J-stock dampers. They are the same length as E30 Bilstein Sport strut cartridge.

If you want maximum lowering ability, then you will want to cut the spring perch off so that the spring height adjuster can use the bottom half of the threaded sleeve.

I am running J-stock dampers with 2.5" springs, 550 front, 750 rear, with GC Race plates.

Bingo. Just what I needed to hear, and precisely the rates I wanted to run. Thank You.

Ed

[Jb325is]

J-stocks aren't linear springs as far as I know.

The struts do not need to be cut for the Bilstein J-stock dampers. They are the same length as E30 Bilstein Sport strut cartridge.

If you want maximum lowering ability, then you will want to cut the spring perch off so that the spring height adjuster can use the bottom half of the threaded sleeve.

I am running J-stock dampers with 2.5" springs, 550 front, 750 rear, with GC Race plates.

Interesting, looks like they are progressive... Didn't know that

But yeah, I have a friend that has been running a similar setup for years and loves it. I think he's running 650/900 or something for springs

[FredK]

J-stocks aren't linear springs as far as I know.

The struts do not need to be cut for the Bilstein J-stock dampers. They are the same length as E30 Bilstein Sport strut cartridge.

If you want maximum lowering ability, then you will want to cut the spring perch off so that the spring height adjuster can use the bottom half of the threaded sleeve.

I am running J-stock dampers with 2.5" springs, 550 front, 750 rear, with GC Race plates.

[ed94r]

I mean, J-stocks are linear springs, correct? Just get a set of cheap coilover sleeves, 2.5" springs with the same rate, and run the J-stock (or whatever) dampers. That way you can run the GC race plates, get as much camber as you want instead of being limited by stock spring diameter, and have height adjustment.
T

Thanks for the feedback. The J stock shocks are Bilsteins, and I have heard conflicting information about whether the struts need to be cut or not for Bilsteins. Would you have any specific experience with this? I do not know anyone running Ground Control CO's with Bilsteins.

I figure this is relevant to the thread...

[Digitalwave]

I completely understand how the Vorshlag design won't bind on the top of the spring perch since they are 11mm taller than the GC design (whether that is a feature or not is debatable), but I don't see how their design is any different when it comes to the center of the spring perch. In what way do you say the GC design doesn't support the center of the plate, and how is the Vorshlag different?

Full disclosure: I haven't even received my GC plates yet. I have IE plates on the car right now. I chose GC over Vorshlag only because I am trying to lower the front of my car more to get more static camber, and the GC design is the thinnest on the market.

[BlackbirdM3]

I end up having to replace my spring hats about every year. They tend to fail in the center, and end up totally chewed up by the camber plates. I also had to make spacers that fit on top of them to get my ride height back up to where my roll center was close to good. (I had to weld new mounting studs in since the spring hats ground the very soft original nuts down till they broke free) Its a bad design. I've run 5 sets of spring hats over the years since I installed these early in 2012, and I have yet to find spring hats that clear. I also can't use any spacers as the damper retaining nut won't engage all the threads.

Are they easy to adjust? Yep, both caster and camber. Do they miss the mark? Yep, chewing up the tops of spring hats is dumb, and not supporting the center of the hat is also dumb. Both are reasons I say the Vorshlag ones are a better design.

Will

[Digitalwave]

My IE camber plates came with a bunch of 2mm thick washers that fit the diameter of the shock shaft perfectly. When I set those plates up to not bind, I had a lot of binding with only 2 spacers, and it'd be completely gone with 3. Sometimes you just need that extra millimeter or two.

[Jb325is]

Yeah, I think that's more on the tolerances on the stamped spring hats than the GC design, although they did cut it pretty close. McMaster-Carr has a great selection of precision shim washers that you can use to adjust clearance if needed.

[Digitalwave]

It does seem like a crap shoot if the SpecE30 plates are going to rub on the spring hats or not. I bought a new set of spring hats to rule out mine being bent or tweaked in any way before installing the SpecE30 plates. I'm interested to see if mine rub or not. If they do I will just add a washer or two to space them up.

[Jb325is]

I mean, J-stocks are linear springs, correct? Just get a set of cheap coilover sleeves, 2.5" springs with the same rate, and run the J-stock (or whatever) dampers. That way you can run the GC race plates, get as much camber as you want instead of being limited by stock spring diameter, and have height adjustment.

BlackbirdM3- Those are the GC Spec e30 plates. They are built to have the lowest stack height possible and get the most amount of camber with stock diameter springs. I have seen some spring hats rub them, but not all. I had to shim mine with some spacers from McMaster-Carr for clearance. They will also adjust far enough that the spring hits the strut tower. Most of the front running Spec e30 guys have found other ways to get the camber they need.

These are the race plates-


They are pretty nice pieces for sure, I've had a few sets of them and currently run them on the MCS setup that's on my track/enduro car

[BlackbirdM3]

Blackbird, just curious, do you have the SpecE30 camber plates? They were the only ones designed to use with a stock diameter spring like the J-stocks. The Race plates are made to use with small diameter linear springs, which may be why they are rubbing your spring perches.

I guess its possible. I bought them from VAC Motorsports and was very very clear that I was running normal type springs and had no interest in ever running coilovers. These are what I have, as I unwrapped them.


As far as the J stock springs and dampers, I think the dampers might be overly stiff on the compression side with the springs. I have a set of the bilstein dampers, but went with the TC Kleins because I had them, and figured they would be a better match. Less compression damping, more rebound. Mind you they are set full hard on the rebound. I've never run the Bilsteins, they are packed away for safe keeping. I looked a long time for them as well but scored the whole setup on ebay a couple years ago. I see no reason to change a thing for my needs. I thought it was going to be way too hard, bordering on harsh, but they are far smoother than the H&R Race springs that I couldn't keep off the bump stops. They are firm, but not bone jarring. Yes they are rare, but worth every penny.

Will

[ed94r]

I'd say find a set of Turner J stock springs and dampers and call it good. A set of Vorshlag camber plates to get your camber adjustment and call it good.

Will

The challenge is that Turner J stock springs are damn near impossible to find and I personally have been looking for over 2 years with zero luck. Meanwhile, I'm using H&R Race with J stock shocks. This setup works well, but it's somewhat soft at the limit. I imagine that the JS springs designed to work with the JS shocks are a better solution. I'm trying to avoid the coil over expense, because I've got a perfectly good 95% setup, but if I don't find a set of J stock springs I may not have a choice if I want to to find that 5%.

Highjack: If anyone has a set of J stock springs I'm ready!