Finally out on the field

[Jean]

The problem didn't go away so I dropped the car off to a shop that did the clutch work and asked them if they would go over everything , as finding something like a lower tranny mount bracket that wasn't secure didn't exactly give me a peace of mind . They agreed to inspect their work at no cost to me, and few hours later called me to tell me the guibo is bad.

Now keep in mind this is brand new guibo that they installed about two months ago along with the tranny bushings. I asked if it's possible that it got damaged because of the tranny brace that wasn't securely attached to the bottom of the car, I am thinking that it possibly caused the driveshaft / tranny to vibrate more and put more stress on this part . Service advisor told me no, I must have gotten a bad part and I got a quote of just over 200 to get this fixed.

I was hoping they would agree that it's a related problem and cover it though. Either way, going to pick the car up and replace the guibo myself and hope it fixes the problem and I am not stuck with the same problem after replacing it still. On saturday after I drove the car back from autocross when I turned the driveshaft by hand to check for play I looked over the flex disc to also make sure that all the bolts were present and the guibo didn't look damaged. I asked them to make sure and also check the CSB before I pick it up.

Fun.

[JGood]

The problem didn't go away so I dropped the car off to a shop that did the clutch work and asked them if they would go over everything , as finding something like a lower tranny mount bracket that wasn't secure didn't exactly give me a peace of mind . They agreed to inspect their work at no cost to me, and few hours later called me to tell me the guibo is bad.

Now keep in mind this is brand new guibo that they installed about two months ago along with the tranny bushings. I asked if it's possible that it got damaged because of the tranny brace that wasn't securely attached to the bottom of the car, I am thinking that it possibly caused the driveshaft / tranny to vibrate more and put more stress on this part . Service advisor told me no, I must have gotten a bad part and I got a quote of just over 200 to get this fixed.

I was hoping they would agree that it's a related problem and cover it though. Either way, going to pick the car up and replace the guibo myself and hope it fixes the problem and I am not stuck with the same problem after replacing it still. On saturday after I drove the car back from autocross when I turned the driveshaft by hand to check for play I looked over the flex disc to also make sure that all the bolts were present and the guibo didn't look damaged. I asked them to make sure and also check the CSB before I pick it up.

Fun.

A bad guibo can vibrate stuff enough to cause a loose trans mount nut. Happened to me.

Another thing to consider - A loose trans mount may be able to damage a guibo.

If you seriously question the shops integrity and the guibo doesn't seem bad, tell them to take you under the car and show you why it's bad. Unless it tore, it can't be bad. They generally break down and start "de-threading" causing a vibration due to being unbalanced because of chunks falling off. This does not happen to new rubber. There would have to be a huge piece missing or a giant tear. Where did you get the part from?

[Jean]

Guibo along with the tranny mounts and the rest of the parts came from BMAParts as brand new. I am not so much questioning the integrity of the shop as just hoping they aren't automatically blaming the guibo w/o checking everything else.

Last night I read through the chapter on the driveshaft in the bentley and there is so much more to checking the driveshaft and csb, and pre-loading the CSB etc.

I'll follow up with the shop today.

[JGood]

Guibo along with the tranny mounts and the rest of the parts came from BMAParts as brand new. I am not so much questioning the integrity of the shop as just hoping they aren't automatically blaming the guibo w/o checking everything else.

Last night I read through the chapter on the driveshaft in the bentley and there is so much more to checking the driveshaft and csb, and pre-loading the CSB etc.

I'll follow up with the shop today.

Yep. If they didn't pre-load the CSB 4-6mm forward, it can self destruct over time, relevant to how hard you are on it, haha.

So if you were out racing it, yeah, that could be a problem. The outer ring can break - then the rubber tears and you have one hell of a vibration. Can also cause the guibo to fail and trans mount nut to come loose.

And if they didn't align the driveshaft pieces right, that can wobble and cause other parts to fail. Or maybe it threw a weight, check that those no spots where it looks like a weight fell off.

Drive line parts are a bitch.

I took my heat shields off and installed new exhaust hardware so that it's simple to get to the driveshaft. 1 hour and I can remove/replace the driveshaft.

[Jean]

From what I was told or understand they did not remove the drive shaft when the tranny was removed to complete the clutch work and install the new flex disc and ie tranny bushings. In that case I am not sure if the CSB was even touched or needed to be pre-loaded.

Anyway, I'll find out if the CSB is ok and if the weights are present and order whats needed myself.

I was really trying to understand what caused what to fail so that I won't have to go through this again.

Maybe i'll remove the heat shields off also, looking at the bentley graphs the CSB does have it's own dust or protective covers on each side to protect the bearing from the elements correct ?

[JGood]

From what I was told or understand they did not remove the drive shaft when the tranny was removed to complete the clutch work and install the new flex disc and ie tranny bushings. In that case I am not sure if the CSB was even touched or needed to be pre-loaded.

Anyway, I'll find out if the CSB is ok and if the weights are present and order whats needed myself.

I was really trying to understand what caused what to fail so that I won't have to go through this again.

Maybe i'll remove the heat shields off also, looking at the bentley graphs the CSB does have it's own dust or protective covers on each side to protect the bearing from the elements correct ?

If they didn't remove the driveshaft to pull the transmission I'd like to meet the guy who did that! The trans needs to be pull back a good 5 inches so the input shaft can clear the clutch, and the driveshaft compresses 1 inch or so.

So, unless they can do some magic tricks, they did mess with the CSB and if they are telling you they didn't, ask them how they pulled the trans. Don't take BS, if they are pushing you around, confront them.

It didn't shake, you took it to them to replace all parts that generally cause shaking, and 1 month later it's shaking. I think it's safe to say they did something wrong and you shouldn't be paying anything unless your parts did fail. But from BMA, I doubt you got an inferior part.

Good luck!


EDIT: Yes, the CSB is a sealed bearing, unless you take your car swimming it should be fine. I drive my cars hard, and don't have A/C or any of that fancy stuff, so maybe it will increase heat/road noise, I don't know.
You can always put them back in though, just save the hardware. They may be hard to get off with the exhaust installed.

[Jean]

With a help of a friend and a lift we took the exhaust off, disconnect the driveshaft from the tranny and checked the CSB. The month or two old new guibo was broken (i'll post a picture later today). I also replaced the shifter console to tranny front bushings/mounts at the same time as the were worn. (this still didn't fix the sloppy shifter :( ).

The driveshaft wasn't exactly straight in it's tunnel, friend helped me align it with a couple of washers where the csb mounts to the body of the car.

No vibration present now, autocrossed the car on saturday and sunday with no problems

[JGood]

With a help of a friend and a lift we took the exhaust off, disconnect the driveshaft from the tranny and checked the CSB. The month or two old new guibo was broken (i'll post a picture later today). I also replaced the shifter console to tranny front bushings/mounts at the same time as the were worn. (this still didn't fix the sloppy shifter :( ).

The driveshaft wasn't exactly straight in it's tunnel, friend helped me align it with a couple of washers where the csb mounts to the body of the car.

No vibration present now, autocrossed the car on saturday and sunday with no problems

Umm... There should be NO aligning the driveshaft, if things aren't bolting up perfectly straight, parts need replaced. It's not vibrating because the CSB is doing it's job. Something is bent or out of place - probably why the Guibo failed in the first place.

Any pics?

If you didn't put the CSB back on right or got the wrong one, it can be off to one side more. The CSB or the Guibo will fail shortly, if that's the case.

[Jean]

Here is a picture of the guibo that we removed after the car got on the lift.

This is about a 2 months old guibo with just about 1000 miles on it tops.





We disconnected the CSB from the car, replaced the guibo and put in new nuts and pre-loaded the CSB. Then we measured if the front and back sections of the driveshafts were "deflecting" and they were. What we then did is put a couple of washers under each side of the CSB to make the whole drive shaft straight from front to back.

bigger pics http://www.briangt.com/gallery/album.../badguibo4.jpg
and close up http://www.briangt.com/gallery/album.../badguibo5.jpg

[s0urce]

fucking CSB man. I went through guibo hell with my e30. I still resent the engineering BMW put into that load of crap.

[Jean]

Forgot to mention I do have IE tranny mounts in place, is it possible that the angle is then tweaked and puts more stress on the CSB ? If this guibo fails again I'll then order a new CSB and Guibo, we'll see what happens in about 1000 miles ...

Would changing engine mounts change the angle again slightly (going from old to new oem or ie) ?

[JGood]

Looks like something got tangled up in there and tore it up.

But the washers worry me. There is no reason, ever, that that should be done. If it's out of whack, fix the part that's out of whack.

Well, shit, if it works, with no problems, then I guess you can't complain, and I should shut up :D

[Jean]

No, you've been very helpful ! It's just the CSB looked totally fine to me and a friend of mine and I couldn't pin point the issue on a specific part :(

How much do the engine mounts effect the drive shaft angle ?

[JGood]

No, you've been very helpful ! It's just the CSB looked totally fine to me and a friend of mine and I couldn't pin point the issue on a specific part :(

How much do the engine mounts effect the drive shaft angle ?

Theres 4 points holding the entire engine and trans. 2 in the front sides, 2 in the back sides (engine mounts / trans mounts). If you remove 2 of those points, and it's the front 2, the pivot point becomes the middle of the back 2 (so the entire engine/trans can pivot upon the center of the trans mounts). So use your imagination, the engine can swing either way from left to right until it hits something. This may not happen due to the fact that trans mounts only stretch so far, grounding straps hold the engine, etc... but you get the idea. Replace your engine mounts if they are questionable and go from there.

You were actually able to SEE a mis-alignment in the driveshaft? To measure one is one thing, but to be able to visually notice a difference in angle is BAD. Was this car wrecked? The center u-joint will take the abuse from a non-straight driveshaft alignment, but that will wear the CSB and u-joints prematurely, and it can't be good for the trans output bearings and diff input bearings.

[Jean]

Theres 4 points holding the entire engine and trans. 2 in the front sides, 2 in the back sides (engine mounts / trans mounts). If you remove 2 of those points, and it's the front 2, the pivot point becomes the middle of the back 2 (so the entire engine/trans can pivot upon the center of the trans mounts). So use your imagination, the engine can swing either way from left to right until it hits something. This may not happen due to the fact that trans mounts only stretch so far, grounding straps hold the engine, etc... but you get the idea. Replace your engine mounts if they are questionable and go from there.

This makes sense, I have not replaced my engine mounts yet, I do have new oem mounts but was waiting for IE mounts and then canceled the order as they were on back order...

You were actually able to SEE a mis-alignment in the driveshaft? To measure one is one thing, but to be able to visually notice a difference in angle is BAD. Was this car wrecked? The center u-joint will take the abuse from a non-straight driveshaft alignment, but that will wear the CSB and u-joints prematurely, and it can't be good for the trans output bearings and diff input bearings.

No, we could not see the mis-alignment (or in this case really it was a deflection of the drive shaft), it was in the center of the tunnel. Car was not wrecked, we used a long straight guide to check if the front and rear driveshaft parts are on the same horizontal plane if you think of it that way.