What are some organizations minimum requirements for harnesses? I found a set of 5 points that are barely used, but older (2+ years). They have been in an air tight bag for 1.5 years. I'm sure they would be fine for AutoX, but what about SCCA PDX, etc... I couldn't really find anything specific.
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Make certain the FIA date on the belts will give you enough life to make buying used worthwhile. Also note that the trend is moving to only allow 6 point harness setups so again, make certain you feel you will get good use out of them before you can't use them.
Here are some of the rules and regs from various organizations:
BMW Club Racing 2007
4. SAFETY HARNESSES - All drivers in BMW CCA Club Racing events must
utilize a 6- or 7-point harness, meeting SFI 16.1, SFI 16.5, FIA 8853
standards, with a 2” or 3” lap belt, 2” sub-strap, and 2” (HANS use only) or 3”
shoulder belts. 5-point harnesses are being phased out and will no longer be
allowed following the expiration of their current certification. Sternum straps
are not recommended and are not permitted with the HANS.
NASA 2007
15.5 Driver restraint system (See diagram at end of section)
1. All vehicles must have a five (5), six (6), or seven (7) point seat belt system. Arm restraints are required in open cars and cars with: Open T-tops, Open Targa tops, missing moon/sun roofs, or glass moon/sun roofs.
2. A five (5) point system consists of a three (3) inch lap belt, two (2) or three (3) inch shoulder belts, and a two (2) inch anti-submarine strap.
3. A six (6) point system is recommended for cars where the driver is seated in an upright (to thirty (30) degrees) or a semi-reclining position. It consists of two (2) anti-submarine belts in addition to lap and shoulder belts. Note: Current FIA Approved belt sets with two (2) inch lap belts are acceptable with the six (6) point system.
4. A seven (7) point system is recommended for seats with more than thirty (30) degrees of incline. Note: Current FIA Approved belt sets with two (2) inch lap belts are acceptable with the seven (7) point system.
5. The material of all straps should be Nylon or polyester, and in new or perfect condition. The buckles should be metal quick release. There should be a common release for all belts. [Note: Certain Momo brand belts were recalled by the manufacturer. These are NOT suitable for racing.]
6. The shoulder harness shall be mounted behind the driver and above a line drawn downward from the shoulder point at an angle of no more than twenty (20) degrees with the horizontal.
7. The seat, seat holes, and attachments to the seat are not permissible “harness guides” for compliance with the angle requirement. Only specific harness guide bars, or parts of the chassis or the cage are allowed to be used for this purpose. The guide bar, if used, should not present a sharp edge to the belt. It should provide as much area of support as possible to distribute the load.
8. Only separate shoulder straps are permitted. “H” type belts are allowed. “Y” type belts are not allowed. Each shoulder strap must have an independent mounting point.
9. All mounting hardware should be SAE grade five (5) or better. Large diameter mounting washers should be used to spread the load. Bolting through floor panels etc. is not acceptable without required washers.
10. All belts should meet at least one of the following: A) SFI Specification 16.1 or 16.5 (for use with HANS only) and shall bear a dated label of no more than two (2) years old. At least one date label is required on belt sets. B) A restraint system meeting FIA spec #8853/1985, 8853/98, or D-###.T/98, including amendment 1/92 may be used. FIA certified belts have a label that shows an expiration date. The belts cannot be used past December 31st of the year shown on the label. At least one date label is required on belt sets.
11. All drivers should take care to ensure that their belts are properly worn, adjusted, and latched. “Cam-lock” type belts can be subject to inadvertent release, should the driver fail to ensure that they are properly latched.
12. Any driver involved in a high impact crash shall send all of their safety belts back to the manufacturer for inspection, re-webbing if necessary, and re-certification before they may be used again in competition. Proof of re-certification is the driver’s responsibility.
13. All belts should be threaded to the manufacturer’s instructions. An example of one type of threading instruction set appears at end of this section.
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SCCA (2006):
20. DRIVER’S RESTRAINT SYSTEM
All drivers in SCCA sanctioned speed events shall utilize either a five, six
or seven point restraint harness meeting the following specifications. A
seven-point restraint harness is recommended. Arm restraints are required
on all open cars including open Targa tops, sunroofs and T-tops. The
restraint system installation is subject to approval of the Chief Technical
and Safety Inspector.
1. A five point system, for use in automobiles where the driver is
seated in an upright position, consists of a three (3) inch seat
belt, an approximately three (3) inch strap over the shoulder
type of shoulder harness, and an approximately two (2) inch
anti submarine strap. A Five-point harness is considered a
minimum restraint system. Six or seven-point systems are highly
recommended in all cars including automobiles where the driver
is seated in an upright position.
2. A six or seven point system, recommended for use in all
automobiles, consists of a three (3) inch seat belt or an FIA
approved two (2) inch seat belt (SFI 2-inch seat belts are not
currently allowed), approximately a three (3) inch strap over the
shoulder type of shoulder harness, and two approximately two
(2) inch leg or anti submarine straps. The seven-point system
also has an approximately two (2) inch anti-submarine strap.
3. The material of all straps shall be Nylon or Dacron polyester and
in new or perfect condition. The buckles shall be of metal to
metal quick release type except in the case of leg straps of the
six point or seven-point systems where they attach to the seat
belt or shoulder harness straps.
4. The shoulder harness shall be the over the shoulder type. Thereshall be a single release common to the seat belt and shoulder
harness. When mounting belts and harnesses it is recommended
that they be kept as short as reasonably possible to minimize
stretch when loaded in an accident.
The shoulder harness shall be mounted behind the driver and
supported above a line drawn downward from the shoulder point
at an angle of twenty (20) degrees with the horizontal. The seat
itself, or anything added only to the seat shall not be considered
a suitable guide. Guides must be a part of the roll cage or a part
of the car structure.
Only separate shoulder straps are permitted. (“Y” type shoulder
straps are not allowed.) “H” type configuration is allowed.
5. The single anti submarine strap of the five point system shall
be attached to the floor structure and have a metal to metal
connection with the single release common to the seat belt and
shoulder harness.
6. The double leg straps of the six point or seven-point system
may be attached to the floor as above for the five point system
or be attached to the seat belt so that the driver sits on them,
passing them up between his or her legs and attaching either to
the single release common to the seat belt and shoulder harness
or attaching to the shoulder harness straps. It is also permissible
for the leg straps to be secured at a point common to the seat
belt attachment to the structure, passing under the driver and
up between his or her legs to the seat belt release or shoulder
harness straps.
All straps shall be free to run through intermediate loops or
clamps/buckles.
7. Each seat (lap) and shoulder belt of the harness (5, 6, or 7 points)
shall have an individual mounting point (i.e. 2 for seat belt and
2 for shoulder belt minimum). Six or seven point system antisubmarine
straps may share a mounting point with one or both
seat (lap) belt(s). The minimum acceptable bolts used in the
mounting of all belts and harnesses is SAE Grade 5. Where
possible, seat belt, shoulder harness, and anti submarine strap(s)
should be mounted to the roll structure or frame of the car.
Where this is not possible, large diameter mounting washers or
equivalent should be used to spread the load. Bolting through
aluminum floor panels, etc., is not acceptable.
8. All driver restraint systems shall meet one of the following:
SFI specification 16.1, FIA specification 8853/1985 including
amendment 1/92 or FIA specifications 8853/98 and 8854/98.
A. Restraint systems meeting SFI 16.1 shall bear a dated ‘SFI
Spec 16.1’ label. The certification indicated by this label
shall expire on December 31st of the 2nd year after the date
of manufacture as indicated by the label.B. Restraint systems complying with FIA specification
8853/1985 including amendment 1/92 shall be no more than
five (5) years old. (Not all manufacturers are dating every
belt in a set. They may be dating one of a pair of shoulder
or lap belts or may only be dating one belt in an entire set.
Scrutineers are reminded that restraint systems need only
one date label.)
C. Restraint systems homologated to FIA specifications 8853/98
and 8854/98 will not have a date of manufacture label.
Instead they will have a label containing the Manufacturer’s
Name, Type of Harness Designation and Date of Expiration
which is the last day of the year marked. All straps in this
FIA restraint system will have these labels. FIA restraint
systems with the certification ‘D ####.T/98’ are equal to
FIA specifications 8853/98 and 8854/98, and are therefore,
acceptable restraint systems. FIA two-inch seat belts with
the certification 8853/98 are acceptable restraint systems
when used in conjunction with their corresponding FIA
shoulder harness and anti-submarine straps.
D. If a restraint system has more than one type of certification
label, the label with the latest expiration may be used.
9. Harness Threading: Assemble in accordance with manufacturers
instructions.
10. FIA certified 2-inch shoulder harnesses are allowed when the
HANS® device is used by the driver. SFI 2-inch shoulder harnesses
are not currently allowed. Should the driver, at anytime not utilize
the HANS® device, then 3-inch shoulder harnesses are required.
The replacement cycle for the 2-inch harnesses shall be per GCR
Section 20.8.Comment
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I've never seen any inspector at autocrosses or HPDE's inspect the belts I have. This includes SCCA National tour or NASA.Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the [federal] government." ~ James Madison
"If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" Barack ObamaComment
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Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the [federal] government." ~ James Madison
"If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" Barack ObamaComment
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for NASA HPDE, they ignore the date and otherwise go based on a visual inspection. Racers often sell their out-of-date harnesses to DE drivers.Current Cars2014 M235i2009 R56 Cooper S1998 M31997 M3Comment
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Sorry guys, was thinking racing, not hpde/pdx...
NASA:Originally posted by DaveCN View Post
11.4.8 Seatbelts and Harnesses
The seatbelts should be in good condition. No damage may be present on the seatbelts
and they must be the factory configuration. Any harness or any restraint system, other
than factory stock, shall conform to CCR section #15.5, in all respects* except for the
expiration regulations. Harnesses that are expired for racing may be used providing that
they are in at least very good condition. The use of a lap belt without any shoulder
restraint is not permitted. Passenger seatbelts must meet the same minimum
requirements per the CCR as the driver seatbelts if being used by a passenger. Notepassenger
equipment need not match the installed equipment on the driver’s side.
*Aftermarket DOT-certified belt sets, installed to the manufacturer’s specifications may
be allowed. Proof of DOT certification and proper installation is the driver’s
responsibility.Comment
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haha I was gonna say, that's intense!
OK so I'll be fine with those nice 5 points. They are $130 for the set, so I think it's a decent deal (about 1/2 price). I'm getting a roll bar from the same guy so I figured, why not? Do these work pretty well with the stock sport seats?Comment
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$130 for used 5-points! Don't do it... www.apexperformance.net (or most any other reputable online dealer) G-Force Cam-lock 6-points: $135 brand spankin new.Originally posted by JGood View Post
Now, if by 'set' you mean 2 seats worth, then maybe, but ONLY if they are like new with absolutely no damage or color fade)
As far as DE regulations... bear in mind, that while some groups may allow out-of-date belts, there's a VERY good reason for club racing to have those dates: Belt's lose their integrity over time, generally a very short period of time. IF you're going to start using harnesses, might as well be confident they'll do their job in the event of an accident.
We (TZC/THSCC) honor FIA expiration dates, and we hold a 5-year rule on SFI manufacture labels.Last edited by StackTrack; 07-02-2007, 07:09 AM.Stacy (Stack) King - HPDE Co-Chairman - Triangle Z Club / Tarheel Sports Car Club
North Carolina
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^^^Your link goes to a consulting firm...?Your signature picture has been removed since it contained the Photobucket "upgrade your account" image.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents. Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the [federal] government." ~ James Madison
"If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" Barack ObamaComment
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Dammit... I do that every time! LOL ... Dot NET ... edited above :DOriginally posted by joshh View Post
Some others include, but are not limited to: www.racerwholesale.com, www.saferacer.comStacy (Stack) King - HPDE Co-Chairman - Triangle Z Club / Tarheel Sports Car Club
North Carolina
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It's $130 for 2 seats worth. I just want something to go with this bar, until I put in a cage and get the rest of the spec e30 stuff. I don't want to spend a lot of money right now, just want a bit more then stock, as the speeds I hit at Pocono the other week had me concerned, being in a stock 3 point with no bar.Comment
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When you say "something to go with this bar", do you mean harness bar, or 4-point roll bar?Originally posted by JGood View Post
Plenty of debate as to what to do or not to do. You should ask yourself why are you concerned about the speeds you're reaching with regard to the stock belt system. If you're concerned about what might happen in an impact, then I'd say dial it back. Put some all-season radials on the car and work on your car control and smoothness until you can afford the safety stuff to go along with the go-fast stuff (FWIW, I consider harnesses both safety and go-fast stuff.)
If you're concerned about not being able to control the car at those speeds, and frankly, don't care about what happens in an impact, then that's your prerogative, and by all means, buy the used stuff.Stacy (Stack) King - HPDE Co-Chairman - Triangle Z Club / Tarheel Sports Car Club
North Carolina
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It's a 4 point bolt-in roll bar with a removeable cross bar. I'm worried because I was doing 135mph down the front straight at Pocono with a stock belt and no rollover protection. I would feel much safer with a set of slightly used 5 points and a well built roll bar then with no roll bar and 20 year old, thoroughly used 3 points. My driving skill is not the only factor in safety. Mechanical failures and OTHER drivers mistakes at over 100mph can easily cost a life. Even if I took my driving down a notch, I'd rather have the extra protection. I see nothing wrong with the equipment I'm buying compared to what is currently in the car, and I see it being beneficial in 95% of the incidents that could occur on the track.Comment
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Information is key here... and I'll admit to somehow overlooking where you said "getting a roll bar from the same guy" then asking if they'll work with the stock seats. I apologize. Please forgive me for assuming this was another harnesses w/o roll bar thread.Originally posted by JGood View Post
So... that out of the way...
Find an email for the lead technical guy for whatever club you're running with. You don't want any surprises. Most will let you run whatever. Our club is noticeably more strict when it comes to safety issues, and I for one don't know why other clubs aren't... but c'est la vie.
Put some SFI high-density padding around the driver and passenger head area, run the sub straps up and through the flap behind the extendable thigh support in the seats (see pic), and you should be ok with most clubs.
If your seats don't accommodate this, don't run it over the front of the seat... run it from behind, through the joint in the seat so you're sitting on them.
Stacy (Stack) King - HPDE Co-Chairman - Triangle Z Club / Tarheel Sports Car Club
North Carolina
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