driving/racing school

[Elephant]

I don't know why, but my pet peeve in any DE (NASA, BMW CCA, PCA, etc) group was that the driver of the car I'm passing seldom understands that when your hand goes out the window to give a point by that your right foot MUST come off the gas as soon as the passing car has made the move to pass. That is preached over and over in the classroom sessions, but seldom seems to make it to the track. When you drive an underpowered car the last thing you need is a drag race to the next corner!

There's really no excuse for trains in a NASA DE-3 group since open passing with a point by is allowed. And I can't remember ever having that problem when running in DE-3 here in the South East.

Frankly there is no excuse ever for there to be trains for very long. Instructors are responsible for making sure students allow passing when it's appropriate, PERIOD. Instructors should be informing students to allows passing and then have them lift as they are pointing. Certainly there are cases where a little hesitation on either the passer or passee causes a pass to not happen but generally it should not be an issue. In my experience I think sometimes instructors get tunnel vision similar to the students!

Cheers.

[Dave]

That was my experience with Hoosier and more so, Buckeye. The A and B Group people seemed to have instructors with them most all of the time. Maybe they were getting signed off or could go solo, but it seemed few of them did.

:shrug:

Anyway, my point is, NASA seems to cut 'em loose a lot faster. CCA seems to be more conservative in its approach as far as instruction is concerned.

[Elephant]

Yeah, and around here, that is where CCA is often better than NASA. Everyone from Group D up to A has an instructor with CCA. Few people get signed off, even race licensed folks.

Which events are these? I guess the only Bluegrass event I run is at Putnam in June or July but that last sentence is fairly inaccurate.

[Dave]

dave likes gau sex.

What is a gau?

Heetard is drunk . . .







































as usual.

[rwh11385]

Dave likes to track.

[Charlie]

My very first race at VIR Full had 90 cars, everything from 996 GT3's to poor little SE30's. I loved every minute of it.

I bet it would get really frustrating in a DE though when you inevitably get stuck behind the guy who thought it would be a good idea to bring the rental Sebring on track.....


If you're tired of trains, build a racecar. If you're involved in a train then, you're just slow!

Vir full is just a touch bigger than Putnam. As for "build a racecar", that is the end goal.

-Charlie

[155///MPH]

I guess because there's nothing to hit other than corn, NASA feels that 70 cars on track at once is doable.

-Charlie

My very first race at VIR Full had 90 cars, everything from 996 GT3's to poor little SE30's. I loved every minute of it.

I bet it would get really frustrating in a DE though when you inevitably get stuck behind the guy who thought it would be a good idea to bring the rental Sebring on track.....


If you're tired of trains, build a racecar. If you're involved in a train then, you're just slow!

[Dave]

There must be some fluidity between regions.

DE2 her in OH/IN (now Great Lakes) is essentially solo in group 1. Its usually not a problem to get an instructor in DE3 if you want one. Like I said, I always like to have one at least the first session or two. And I have grabbed one to ride with me when I felt like the turn(s) or skill I was trying to hone at that time could use a second more experienced set of eyes/ears/butt/etc.

The picture Lance had above was from an event 2-1/2 years ago when NASA here combined 2 and 3, not 1 and 2. And its at Putnam, which is a pretty tight little track. My experience since then is that things are a little better since then.

Group 3 here starts out with limited passing zones, and if everyone seems to be playing well, they open it up to more and more passing zones as the weekend progresses. BUT, if there are too many cases of stupid, they tighten it back up.

[jlevie]

NASA DE-1 & DE-2 are always assigned instructors, supposedly NASA wide. DE-2 students can be signed off solo, but if the rules are followed they won't be until they can actually handle that. My experience is only with NASA/SE and they seem to be pretty conservative with respect to signing off solo or recommending promotion to DE-3. When I drove in DE-3 I always found an instructor to take a ride with me sometime during the weekend and I know a lot of others that also followed that practice. Maybe NASA/MA is a bit different?

I don't know why, but my pet peeve in any DE (NASA, BMW CCA, PCA, etc) group was that the driver of the car I'm passing seldom understands that when your hand goes out the window to give a point by that your right foot MUST come off the gas as soon as the passing car has made the move to pass. That is preached over and over in the classroom sessions, but seldom seems to make it to the track. When you drive an underpowered car the last thing you need is a drag race to the next corner!

There's really no excuse for trains in a NASA DE-3 group since open passing with a point by is allowed. And I can't remember ever having that problem when running in DE-3 here in the South East.

[Dave]

It isn't an aversion to letting an E30 by, it is an aversion to letting anyone by or as a result of the driver being so task saturated that he/she isn't watching their mirrors. Of course if there's an instructor in the car they are also responsible.

Assuming that there are three or more passing zones, there no reason that a train should last more than one lap. The slow car should be very aggressive in pointing cars by and try to get as many pointed by as possible in each passing zone. A common problem is when the slower car won't make it easy by shedding speed for the passes. Even in a short passing zone you can get more that one car by with a generous reduction in speed. If a lift won't get it done, use the brakes.

Yeah, and around here, that is where CCA is often better than NASA. Everyone from Group D up to A has an instructor with CCA. Few people get signed off, even race licensed folks.

NASA - Only HPDE1 has an instructor the whole time. HPDE2 runs with Group 1, but solo (though instructors are available). HPDE3 is solo, with some instructors available, though few take advantage of that.

More often than not, the trains are the result of guys running solo who maybe ought not to be yet. I always like to have someone in the right seat at least the first session or two of the weekend. They help me shake my rust off and improve the situational awareness.

[rwh11385]

CHOOOO CHOOOO

[jlevie]

It isn't an aversion to letting an E30 by, it is an aversion to letting anyone by or as a result of the driver being so task saturated that he/she isn't watching their mirrors. Of course if there's an instructor in the car they are also responsible.

Assuming that there are three or more passing zones, there no reason that a train should last more than one lap. The slow car should be very aggressive in pointing cars by and try to get as many pointed by as possible in each passing zone. A common problem is when the slower car won't make it easy by shedding speed for the passes. Even in a short passing zone you can get more that one car by with a generous reduction in speed. If a lift won't get it done, use the brakes.

[markseven]

Back in May, I think we had 25-30 in HPDE3. I mostly stayed out of it, but there were a few trains at times. Most caused by Miatas and by this prick in an Audi TT who kept whining at every download session about "Well, when I come here with Audi club, they do . . . . " and griping about people riding his ass when he would not point them by. :-x

Ya, some people have an aversion to letting an E30 by. Especially some guy in a 350Z that I encountered at CalSpeedway...

[Dave]

Putnam is sort of the exception to the rule. I guess because there's nothing to hit other than corn, NASA feels that 70 cars on track at once is doable. I make sure to put on my conductor hat everytime I've run Putnam. Choo-Choo!

-Charlie

Screw that place. It has it in for me and my car. Mid-Ohio is about the same distance from my house, so I find it hard to want to go back to Putnam after the bad luck I have had there.

Back in May, I think we had 25-30 in HPDE3. I mostly stayed out of it, but there were a few trains at times. Most caused by Miatas and by this prick in an Audi TT who kept whining at every download session about "Well, when I come here with Audi club, they do . . . . " and griping about people riding his ass when he would not point them by. :-x

[markseven]

Whether that's too many cars or not depends on the length of the track and the experience/skill/maturity level of the drivers. I've been out with 60 other cars at Barber (a 2.3 mile track) and never had a problem with traffic. That group only had instructors and very advanced solo students in it who were very good at managing traffic and I don't remember any problems with trains. On a shorter track or with less experienced drivers half that number could be way too many cars.

That makes sense, I suppose it's all relative.