understeer how do I minimize it?

[driver08]

As a very basic step (used to be common practice) you can try is to replace your rear sway bar with a stock E30 M3 bar. It is margianlly thicker and should not require any reinforcemnent that are sometimes recommended with beefier bars. I did this way back and I did think it made a noticable improvement for little effort or money. However, as others have said, tire pressures and slow in/fast out can have quite an effect. Nothing will cure the understeer quite like camber plates (front of course). -George.

[Hallen]

No, it has nothing to do with loading the spring or changing the height - it has everything to do with widely available and inexpensive custom 2.5" springs. Don't like your rates? spend $60 on another set of springs and swap them out. you could even have them for different setups if you like - track/autox, street, etc.

Ah, that makes sense then. Thanks!
I guess it was the way he worded it originally that confused me.

Bigger front sways=less understeer, got it. (on these cars... without modified suspensions... and only up to a point...:o)

[Borat]

pretty sure you're a naive twit...

for BMWs, a big front bar HELPs to REDUCE understeer

settle down chief, we have already covered that earlier in the thread with the reasons why. I really dont see the need for you to bring it up again only with added insults, but whatever makes you happy

[z31maniac]

if you think 450/550 are too stiff you probably don't want coilovers :p

(I know that was just an example)

Haha, yeah. I need to get my wheels off and check what my rates are. I think I remember the guy who sold me the car saying 375/475.

Which is not bad at all on the street, I think, although I don't think I'd want to go too much stiffer with a car on low profile tires on 17s with the crappy ass roads we have here.

[rwh11385]

DSP74 already brought up the front swaybar issue here:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=108766

for those who didn't pay attention or are n00bs

[rwh11385]

The advantages aren't just the ability to corner weight the car. The biggest advantage is in CHOOSING what spring rate you want, AND the ability to change those spring rates easily. And if you look in the right places inexpensively

+1.

Fiddle go play your fiddle.

[rwh11385]

pretty sure you've got that wrong, generally a bigger front will increase understeer, and a bigger rear bar will increase oversteer

pretty sure you're a naive twit...

for BMWs, a big front bar HELPs to REDUCE understeer

[nando]

if you think 450/550 are too stiff you probably don't want coilovers :p

(I know that was just an example)

[z31maniac]

^No it because with coilovers like GC, with 2.5" springs, you can buy replacement springs in nearly any rate/length combination you can think of and they are very affordable.

So if you discover that say a 450/550 rate doesn't work for your driving style, too bumpy for your track, don't like how it rides, you can easily and cheaply change it. And then most likely be able to sell the springs to someone else.

[nando]

Sorry to revive an oldish thread, but the comment about easily changing spring rate with a coilover had me bothered.

What do you mean by that? I am guessing that by adjusting the ride height you in effect put a preload on the spring and therefore the spring rate?

However, the only thing that affects spring rate is diameter, the number of active coils, and the wire diameter.

With these coilover systems, can you put enough of a preload on the spring so that you get dead coils? This would raise the effective spring rate because you have effectively removed one of the coils of the spring. That seems pretty extreme though and I would have thought it wouldn't be possible to do if the springs are perfectly linear and the coil spacing is equal.

No, it has nothing to do with loading the spring or changing the height - it has everything to do with widely available and inexpensive custom 2.5" springs. Don't like your rates? spend $60 on another set of springs and swap them out. you could even have them for different setups if you like - track/autox, street, etc.

[Hallen]

The advantages aren't just the ability to corner weight the car. The biggest advantage is in CHOOSING what spring rate you want, AND the ability to change those spring rates easily. And if you look in the right places inexpensively

Sorry to revive an oldish thread, but the comment about easily changing spring rate with a coilover had me bothered.

What do you mean by that? I am guessing that by adjusting the ride height you in effect put a preload on the spring and therefore the spring rate?

However, the only thing that affects spring rate is diameter, the number of active coils, and the wire diameter.

With these coilover systems, can you put enough of a preload on the spring so that you get dead coils? This would raise the effective spring rate because you have effectively removed one of the coils of the spring. That seems pretty extreme though and I would have thought it wouldn't be possible to do if the springs are perfectly linear and the coil spacing is equal.

[Fidhle007]

I think it's a waste of money - I could have been running GC all these years instead of H&Rs. I would have been fine. That's why you listen to other people who have similar setups. it's not like you're going to randomly pick springs, toss them on your car and hope for the best.

also, yes that is hypocritical. I have facilities available to me for corner weighting when I get to it, and I'm sure it will have a nice effect on my car's handling, but it's not the end of the world to not do it. like I said, you can't do anything with standard springs, so it's moot.

I agree with you on all of the above actually but I was initially thinking about this question as more of a daily and less for track. Sorry if I came off as abrasive.

[Fidhle007]

Income is income...

[DSP74]

I know there are advantages to having coilovers, that's why I have them on my car. And although I might sound like a hypocrite, I have not cornerweighted it yet but I have the capabilities to do so (just never the time.) For anyone who walks into my shop though, I will always recommend something closer to stock simply for the ease of use especially on a daily driven car. If the OP is spending a lot of time on the track and can set the car up well the coilovers would be great, but the H&R Cup Kit is very low but not that stiff so going with some Race springs would still feel like a nice upgrade for less money I think. When that gets old, sell the races and buy the coilovers but having H&R do your setup for you first always seems like a good idea to me... :D

You must be much more understanding than me. I figure if JUST HAVING the capability to change spring rates and ride height is to much, then they should just not do ANYTHING to the car. Even stock type lowering springs.:blowup:

[nando]

I think it's a waste of money - I could have been running GC all these years instead of H&Rs. I would have been fine. That's why you listen to other people who have similar setups. it's not like you're going to randomly pick springs, toss them on your car and hope for the best.

also, yes that is hypocritical. I have facilities available to me for corner weighting when I get to it, and I'm sure it will have a nice effect on my car's handling, but it's not the end of the world to not do it. like I said, you can't do anything with standard springs, so it's moot.